Should we call out the Apple lovers amongst our ranks?

[Patrick]

How many Linux users still have that Windows partition on their machines?

Windows free at my house. I had to keep a windows partition around for about 6 years too long because the vpn admin at my job refused to configure the vpn server to allow connections from non windows clients. This finally changed recently. I had some of the unix people personally thank me for being a thorn in the vpn admins side until he made the changes. The point of the poll is to bring to light that people need to evaluate where they stand in all this and how they view the use of different kinds of software.

[akuma624]

I see where you are coming from with the "just works" analogies - but I think you might have missed the point as it applies to apple products. I ran a small apple-talk network at a university in FLA and I can tell you the setup/config time on many apple products is very short - especially when you just narrow your argument to the conusmer products. This is where *nix system have been improving but are not there yet. I run only linux on my machines at home (with the exception of my wife's laptop) and although more stable they do take a little more time to configure - but in the end this is a benefit and not a burden. In the consumer space (read: non tech population) this doesn't "just work" to them.

[HerbVista]

I agree with comments made by Alan during episode 237 ... and to sort of paraphrase ... using whatever technology that seems to get the job done in a manner that is agreeable to the user (Alan) ...

Also, gadget lovers often like "cool" looking hardware ... just check the hardware sites with the various PC case mods ... Apple provides an easy path to cool hardware with ready to use and customized software.

Apple tries to offer a complete solution to an information/media processing task and often produces elegant hardware in the process. Many people want to enjoy the benefits of this integration and will buy Apple products for this reason ... or so it seems ... what's wrong with that ?! ...

And, its hard to find fault with people who want to take advantage of various elegant hardware/software solutions that don't have all of the vulnerabilities of a Microsoft environment.

It also seems that many Apple people are aware of using Parallels/VMware products which enables them to run other operating systems on their Mac's.

So why turn away Apple users ... just ask them to load VMWare Fusion and gNewSense to join the Linux world !

P.S. Lately there has been entirely too much bash'ing of "the Vista" ... at least wait for Service Pack 2 to come out before making a judgment ....

[allix]

I found this article on Salon another reason why i cannot stand apple fanatics.

http://machinist.salon.com/feature/2008 ... excerpt_2/

in a nutshell they cannot accept criticism, they brush it off as a bias.

[davijordan]

apple II, trs-80, and c=64 war. Here we go again. What a chuckle. I love windoze and osx! i get free used computers that way by helping people upgrade, Seriously, you should always look at the application software first and the os second. Now that most apps are on multiple platforms, a look at the os can be more exacting. Actually I like to use different platforms, because you are forced to translate what you do from one system to another. This can teach you a better way to do processes on your own pet platform. Personally I am getting away from pay before you play software. I try to support opensource with more than just evangelism when I can. I did get mswindows server and ctrix cheap a while back from the net to play with. I much prefer linux and or ltsp though. Soon enough we will probably start saying what was gnome or what was kde again....... Then I guess we will start the all over again with whatever is new.

as the old story goes:
A quote by Gandhi: “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”

[Tsuroerusu]

P.S. Lately there has been entirely too much bash'ing of "the Vista" ... at least wait for Service Pack 2 to come out before making a judgment ....

Let me ask very bluntly: Why?

People blame KDE for releasing something unfinished, in the form of KDE 4.0, and people have bitched and moaned up their asses about it! And then when it comes to Microsoft, people are like "Oh but we should wait for the next Service Pack .....", or "You know you should always wait until SP1 ...", like it's a tradition to expect crap from Microsoft from day one.

A few years ago, when Red Hat released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4, I grabbed it off of BitTorrent just to see what it was like, and messed around with it. And tell you what, it ran really really well. Red Hat is a very small company compared to Microsoft, I find it baffling that they can put out an operating system that works better than that of the largest software vendor on the freaking planet.

[HerbVista]

I have another question. Should we also call out the Windows lovers in our ranks?

Is "I only use it for games" an excuse to keep the familiar around?

How many Linux users still have that Windows partition on their machines?

--murph

(Linux, Mac, occasionally Windows, and even occasionally Amiga user.)

I keep XP around for accessing and retrieving data at sites written specifically with IE and ActiveX and Silverlight in mind. There are many occasions with (financial) sites that expect a Microsoft Enviroment.
(I use "on10.net" as a test of Linux vs Windows page formats)

Since I consider "data retrieval" as a major role of a desktop/laptop, then all types of retrieval tools are needed ... including those of M$.

Think Pat should start a pole/thread based on your question about M$ partition/use ... good discussion point ... in fact the ultimate discussion point !

[snarkout]

I gots mad apple gear at my house - a mini, an ipod, a video ipod, and an ipod touch. When my wife's lappy dies, I'll probably get her a macbook to replace it. She's ok with linux, and in general I've only had to bang together a few scripts to fix the stuff that doesn't "just work" but she'd be a lot happer with a macbook.

I don't have windows partitions on any boxen currently, but I do have windows on both my workstation and my lappy via virtualbox. I need it for a few tools and for CBT stuff - even the CBT stuff that is available to stream uses DRM. It's also nice to be able to stream from netflix and amazon (though I have to admit I haven't tried amazon yet).

[snkmchnb]

I currently use a macbook (my fiance's) alongside of my linux desktop. Mainly the macbook was purchased as a HP notebook replacement as I had liked my mac-mini that had at the time (sold it to build my desktop ). Mainly its used for syncing her iPod (was for syncing mine also but I sold it to get an Cowon A3 which runs linux and plays .ogg and .flac) and general surfing. Funny thing (but makes sense) about it though is that the macbook runs better when running linux on it. I've tried multiple live CDs and it runs like a champ. Any software that I've gotten for the mac has been open source and/or freeware... Latest beta of open office 3 is the best by far that has been developed for OS X too.

As far as the iTunes discussion goes, well from my experience it is the BEST podcatcher for mac. I've tried the others, no need for recommendations, and nothing seems to come close especially since I can manage the music library too.

[oswaldkelso]

I use apple hardware, though the reason I got a computer in the first place was to publish a book. The funder recommended apple as at the time pagemaker was the main publishing tool and mac the platform used.
Consequentially I never had an i386 pc until about a year ago (very old at that).
For years I regarded my use of an apple as an anti MS stance though in recent years its obvious that they are no different.
I will say apple make a good produce though you do pay a premium at the top end of the range.
My conversion to gnu/linux was about freedom not quality and has been a gradual process. I still need to use osx some times mostly for dvd ripping movie stuff and psp conversion where linux just isn't quite there yet. I don't have a TV so use the iplayer from the bbc in osx . There is no version that runs on ppc. As those lockins are eroded I can see my conversion to FOSS resulting in me dumping osx but it will be awhile yet. I'm lucky in that I have two machines so can learn and tweek whist still having a working computer. It's getting to the stage where I'm getting proficient enough in using Debian to be running Debian on one and dual booting the other. But for not really techie people like me there is no quick switch.
I'd like to see a call out of MS lovers also. I mean with flash, wine, skype, allowing all the other proprietary stuff etc they have even less reason to keep another OS.

[rizzo]

I've been traveling and just had a chance to catch up to this. My $.02...

I'm neither a lover or hater of any technology, well okay, maybe Windows which is another rant. I tend to try and avoid the binary lover/hater/fanboy/blah arguments.

My current PC's are a Macbook Pro, Mac Mini, Lenovo Thinkpad X61 running Ubuntu, a Dell Poweredge server runnin Debian server with vmware (Windows 2003/Exchange, yeah I have to support that stuff for work) and a Macpro. I use iTunes on the mini to download podcasts and serve my music, but haven't bought anything from iTunes for years. I have been buying mp3's from Amazon (love the no DRM).

Why all the Macs? I make my money as a consultant building and supporting networks for non profit organizations and as a photographer. Sure as shit there's nothing yet on Linux that works as well for me as Photoshop and Adobe Lightroom on my Macs. If that changes one day, then I can see myself migrating everything over to Linux, or not. I'll come to that when that comes.

The networks I build are for the most part Windows workstations, some with Windows servers, maybe Exchange, but also Linix servers running Samba, Apache, all the good stuff. Again, my clients live in a Windows world. Raisers Edge kind of runs the Fundraising software market, and Gifts runs the grantmaking market. I don't particularly like either of them, but the market often dictates the technology we recommend an implement. Write me a better fundraising program that I can pitch to my clients and I'll gladly rip out all the Windows servers. Wish I could, but I'm a pretty good sysadmin and photographer, but a crappy coder.

I'm going to Lugradio USA next month and Ohion Linux Fest and bringing my Thinkpad and N810. I may slap an Apple sticker on the Thinkpad, just for shits and giggles. My Macbook, with a penguin sticker is also coming along so I can process my photos. I also bring them both along to hacker events (Defcon, Shmoocon, CCC).

Now, lets get into Nikon vs. Canon, oops wrong forums

[allix]

Why all the Macs? I make my money as a consultant building and supporting networks for non profit organizations and as a photographer. Sure as shit there's nothing yet on Linux that works as well for me as Photoshop and Adobe Lightroom on my Macs. If that changes one day, then I can see myself migrating everything over to Linux, or not. I'll come to that when that comes.

Those apps run on windows, tried running them via wine? or is their a big different between those apps on a mac?

Now, lets get into Nikon vs. Canon, oops wrong forums

Leica M8 (only in a dream)

I am using a Nikon D80 atm. The D300 is tempting

[davijordan]

I wish linux would better support something like xgrid. I think we and blow away the competition if it was. We need to get away from single computer vision per se.

[Gomer_X]

Wow it sure has been a long time since I've been on these here forums!!!1!

I didn't see anyone stating exactly my opinion so I'll give it.

I don't think we should "call out" anybody. Being elitist is what we're trying to put behind us. Educating people is good. Criticizing people is bad.

Now if Pat were to buy an iPhone I'd be willing to poke fun, but that's because of his strongly expressed opinions. I'd be OK with calling out hypocrisy, but it's not clear to me that Linux users using Apple products is hypocritical.

If someone makes a choice and they've thought about it, more power to them. There's no reason not to educate people that there's a better way, but we should do it gently.

[eddie]

Apple's biggest fanboy?
http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/ ... on-co.html