Desktop Linux Distros Headed in the Wrong Direction?

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:34 am

http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/261/1/
"The impending release of Windows Vista with its fancy Aero Glass special effects, along with the hasty addition of the similar XGL and Compiz technologies to the latest SUSE Linux release makes me think that programmers have a warped idea of what desktop computing is about. For some reason, many GNU/Linux users are concerned about competing feature-for-feature with Vista, while Apple and Microsoft struggle to add more graphical extras to their already graphics-intensive desktop OSes. It's gotten so that you need a serious 3D video card (with proprietary drivers) and a fairly fast computer just to keep up with desktop environments. Whatever happened to being productive and having fun?"

What do you guys think about the things pointed out in this article? Personally I agree with a few of them, for example the stuff he says about the GIMP, of course I am a bad example because I can't figure any image editing software out, except for maybe Krita, which is a part of KOffice and is beautifully designed, but I don't agree with XGL/AIGLX being entirely useless. Right now, all you see with XGL is eye-candy, and primarily on the GNOME desktop, which I guess is because Novell wants to come out with a bang and say "We do EVERYTHING that Vista does, TODAY, and for less money" with their SLED 10 which primarily is a GNOME desktop distribution, although KDE is readily available for people who wishes to use that, I'm sure some of SUSE's longtime German customers would be in favor of that. As Zack Rusin said when he was on TLLTS, "I completely agree, those things are useless", I don't think we're seeing the things that could actually be done with XGL/AIGLX yet, personally I don't have that many ideas for it, but then again, I'm not a usability expert nor a user interface designer.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:49 am

This sort of goes along with the post about standardising the Linux desktop.

If performace is more important to the article's author than eye-candy, simply use XFCE, Fluxbox, or one of the other abundant X-Window managers.

The beautiful part about Linux is that each and every user has a choice to how they and what they use on their computers.

I can't run the latest SuSE on my aging test box.... so I don't. Simple as that. There are hundreds of alternatives available to me. Do I feel I'm missing out on something because of it? No, because SuSE is just one road out of many to the same destination.

I'm very happy that there's people out there making XGL/Compiz possible. I'm not saying I'll be using it, but it's great to see the innovation happening. Just because it's there, however, you're not being forced to use it. The same can't be said for Microsoft or Mac products. If you don't use their latest OSs, you're ultimately on your own; no "ifs", "ands", or "buts".

You also cannot turn to a community supported version of MS or Mac systems, 'cause it's illegal to do such developments.

However, if KDE 5.5 becomes more eye-candy than I can handle, I'd just simply move over to ICEwm (or something).

It's about CHOICE. Linux should always be about CHOICE.

I say let XGL/Compiz developers do what they want and go to the limits. Hell, they're doing it for free and it isn't forcing me to change my computing habits in the least. So, if I don't like where it's going, what do I care? There are alternatives.

Or better yet.... if I'm really ticked off as to where the Linux desktop is going, then I should get off my ass and start coding my own desktop environment. With Linux I have the right and freedom to do just that.

The author makes a comment about no good applications for professional writers under Linux. Well, if s/he sees a need then do something about it. Contribute something or find a programmer that s/he could collaborate with and make something together. Get off your ass and DO something.

Uh, boy. My apologies for my rambling. And if I'm views are totally mis-guided, well, I can live with that.

kbrown3074 · Post by **kbrown3074** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:40 am

Judland...I have the same thoughts on it as you do. It's one of the reasons i moved from Windows. I love the fact that I can customize all kinds of stuff on my system. Granted I have alot to learn about Linux in general..but I am gaining some knowledge. I have tried a bunch of different distros, but have only used gnome, xfce and kde thus far. I'd say that KDE is my fav at this point. Windows sux!

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:57 am

Judland wrote:This sort of goes along with the post about standardising the Linux desktop.

If performace is more important to the article's author than eye-candy, simply use XFCE, Fluxbox, or one of the other abundant X-Window managers.

The beautiful part about Linux is that each and every user has a choice to how they and what they use on their computers.

I can't run the latest SuSE on my aging test box.... so I don't. Simple as that. There are hundreds of alternatives available to me. Do I feel I'm missing out on something because of it? No, because SuSE is just one road out of many to the same destination.

I'm very happy that there's people out there making XGL/Compiz possible. I'm not saying I'll be using it, but it's great to see the innovation happening. Just because it's there, however, you're not being forced to use it. The same can't be said for Microsoft or Mac products. If you don't use their latest OSs, you're ultimately on your own; no "ifs", "ands", or "buts".

You also cannot turn to a community supported version of MS or Mac systems, 'cause it's illegal to do such developments.

However, if KDE 5.5 becomes more eye-candy than I can handle, I'd just simply move over to ICEwm (or something).

It's about CHOICE. Linux should always be about CHOICE.

I say let XGL/Compiz developers do what they want and go to the limits. Hell, they're doing it for free and it isn't forcing me to change my computing habits in the least. So, if I don't like where it's going, what do I care? There are alternatives.

Or better yet.... if I'm really ticked off as to where the Linux desktop is going, then I should get off my ass and start coding my own desktop environment. With Linux I have the right and freedom to do just that.

The author makes a comment about no good applications for professional writers under Linux. Well, if s/he sees a need then do something about it. Contribute something or find a programmer that s/he could collaborate with and make something together. Get off your ass and DO something.

Uh, boy. My apologies for my rambling. And if I'm views are totally mis-guided, well, I can live with that.

I completely agree, and heck, if you don't like Linux, go for one of the BSDs! It's all Free Software!

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:30 pm

I think it would be stupid to not use the graphics cards if you have them. Right now it is mostly eye-candy but there's nothing wrong with a desktop looking good is there? Also 3D brings a whole new world of possibilities, remember when Doom and Quake first came out? It brought a whole new genre of gaming and made games more indepth, now that the horsepower is in most computers I hope it revolutionizes the desktops the same way.

Also you are not being forced to use it and the fact is computers are getting faster and faster and we should not be holding ourselves back for legacy support.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:03 am

CptnObvious999 wrote:I think it would be stupid to not use the graphics cards if you have them. Right now it is mostly eye-candy but there's nothing wrong with a desktop looking good is there? Also 3D brings a whole new world of possibilities, remember when Doom and Quake first came out? It brought a whole new genre of gaming and made games more indepth, now that the horsepower is in most computers I hope it revolutionizes the desktops the same way.

Yeah, I agree, because you're not really putting more stress on the CPU, you're just using the GPU that on a typical Linux user's desktop is doing absolutely nothing but doing 2D drawing, which takes like no resources at all.

CptnObvious999 wrote:Also you are not being forced to use it and the fact is computers are getting faster and faster and we should not be holding ourselves back for legacy support.

Exactly, and just too add to that, I had XGL running perfectly on an old IBM Aptiva with a Pentium 3 processor and 256 MB of SD-RAM. This thing is six years old, and all the effects ran beautifully.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:36 am

I've said it before, and I still believe that XGL/ Compiz is not useless in any way. I work with a few people who have a lot of trouble with computers, They don't really understand what's going on when there is no obvious feedback, and it would be problematic to move them to a linux desktop environment. Who here loves virtual desktops? I do, and sometimes use upwards of 7 of them on my main machine. When a first time linux user clicks on a virtual desktop, all they know is that their applications disappeared, and they think they lost everything, especially when they accidentally hit the keyboard combination to switch desktops. I disabled it on my sister's laptop because it pissed her off so much.

Of course, what I realized is that the computer gave her absolutely no visual feedback to let her know what in Hell just happened. I tried to show her what happened, but she hated that first experience so much that she didn't even want to hear about it, she just wanted it to never happen again. The cube may be overkill, and it would probably be just as helpful to have a little pop up message saying something to effect of, "Hey! Your programs you were just using are right here, so click here if you need them again." But giving people who aren't familiar with these concepts any sort of visual cues that might guide them or tell them what's going on is more helpful than most knowledgable geeks realize.

I agree with CptnObvious999 about using the hardware that's already there. I bought a decent little graphics card, and it's just sitting there, doing nothing 99% of the time, so giving me the option to use that graphics card to make my desktop look a little more impressive can only be a good thing. I'm one of the first people to get rid of those effects if they really slow me down or make things unstable, and I still like using fluxbox at work on the old G3, so the options are still there. The number of choices available to me are increasing, which can only be a good thing.

jsusanka · Post by **jsusanka** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:27 am

"Professional writers. Obviously this one is high on my personal wish list, but I'm not alone -- writers are a large, neglected group of computer users. I regularly get email from other authors and journalists who repeat the same lament: there aren't any really good programs or specialized environments for writers. We're stuck with over-featured software like OpenOffice.org, or barebones tools like Vim and Aspell, and we have to modify our work habits to fit the boundaries of these programs. What we should have is a suite of literary-specific tools -- one for drafting, outlining, and storyboarding; one for editing (spelling, grammar, punctuation); and one for publishing (page layout and design, etc.). Don't forget screenwriters, either -- they should have tools specific for their needs. Programs like JEdit and LyX can come close in many regards, but we're still without heavy-hitting English drafting and editing tools on GNU/Linux."

totally agree with what judland said - for everything that he/she mentions there is a linux equivalent if none of those exist then do something about it. it really is that simple.

all the graphic stuff like xgl really does not matter much to me at least. what is amazing though is that I can run xgl from suse on a desktop with a fairly moderate graphic card and get very usable performance. to me that will be a big selling point over windows because you know you will have to buy a new computer for vista.

personally I am kind of looking forward to vista and all the computers the sheeple's will get rid of - there will be some nice computers that will probably get trashed.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:30 am

jsusanka wrote:personally I am kind of looking forward to vista and all the computers the sheeple's will get rid of - there will be some nice computers that will probably get trashed.

Yeah, like Allan once said on the show, we really need to find that dumpster!