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Finally tried installing Ubuntu
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:11 pm
by Judland
So, this afternoon I thought I'd finally give Ubuntu a try. I proceeded to install it on my test system.
Well, I can confidently say, this distro. ain't for me.
The thing that ticked me off was that I had no root account. Where the hell's my root account? Why didn't it ask me to set a root password?
What, any user can execute root commands with sudo? What the hell kind of security is that?
That took a whole two minutes for me to say no to Ubuntu. It's getting wiped as I type this.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:09 pm
by snarkout
Only the account you install with has sudo all. I'm sort of torn on sudo, but overall I like it and think the benefits outweigh the negative aspects. That being said, I haven't bothered to install sudo on my arch box. The major problem I have with [k]ubuntu is that several of the packages have been total crap - at least on both hoary and breezy I've had a number of problems with apps that I've never had on other boxen. I also dislike a lot of the changes they've made to KDE - I can fix all of this myself, but I'd really appreciate as "as it was meant to be" option.
However, I'm still planning on installing dapper if I can ever get a flight6 iso that will boot on my boxen. Otherwise I'll have to wait until they go gold. I have a nice display of breezy shipit cds where I work - what's trippy is I didn't ask for them - they just showed up one day.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:27 am
by Judland
I guess I've just been using Linux for so long that it irritates me when these little "improvements" are made to the standard way of doing things and I can't choose whether I want them or not.
Eh! I guess I'm just getting older and crankier.
It's been a long time since I've tried Mandrake... oh, uh... Mandriva I guess it is now. Time for a visit, perhaps?
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:49 am
by Tsuroerusu
Judland wrote:It's been a long time since I've tried Mandrake... oh, uh... Mandriva I guess it is now. Time for a visit, perhaps?
I started with Mandriva when I started with Linux, so this distro is something special to me, 10.1 I was very disappointed with, but 2006 I'm very happy about. Mandriva is probably the distro that does the best job on internationalization, which is a big deal in Europe. People like my mom had their last english leasson over 30 years ago, so a lot of it is gone as those gray hairs are starting to show ('ey an owl ican be gray and wise at the same time) so having Linux in danish is key here. I tried SUSE, the support for danish sucked so hard, I tried Fedora, was pretty good but not complete and Fedora's KDE support sucks and judging by my own, very in-depth usability studies, KDE is the better desktop for newbies or my mom, I tried Ubuntu, was pretty good, but had severe holes here and there in important places, I tried Kubuntu which sucked, Mandriva was just smooth on this, everything from the installer to the custom management tools, DrakConf, only suffered from very very very minor spelling, gramma or direct-translation in the wrong places.
One thing I also like about Mandriva is the amount of community packages available for it, the SeerOfSouls repository is great along with PLF and others.
Out-of-the-box multimedia support is actually quite good.
I should note that I base all my views on the PowerPack version of Mandriva, the Free one is OK, but PowerPack is better by multitudes.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:58 am
by Judland
Thanks.
Yes, Mandrake 8.2 was my first entry into the world of Linux, too. So, right now it's sort of like returning to where it all began for me.
I've just downloaded the three Free 2006 ISO and am installing now. I'm hoping that I like the improvements to the package manager. The whole "RPM Hell" was what sent me looking for other Linux solutions those few years ago.
Being a corporation, I understand that generating revenue is important, but the way Mandriva always pushed payed services at almost every turn kind of turned me off, too. I did buy the 8.2 boxed set, so at the time I felt that I invested my fair share into it and got tired of the "reminders" to contribute more.
If I had a system (other than our household's main PC) that had the resources, I'd like to try SuSE, but I just can't come to wiping the our main PC without a test drive first.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:23 am
by Judland
Well, time to turn in.
It's been just under an hour since I finished burning my ISOs and started the install of Mandriva Free 2006 and all looks good. Just booted up and everything seems to be working. AND I've got an actual root account now.
I'll save the package update for tomorrow.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:46 am
by Tsuroerusu
'ey Judland, if you want it, you should be able to *look around* and find Mandriva 2006 PowerPack, that's what I did.
It's not that I don't want to pay for it, but I don't have access to a credit card, and the distro is a little overpriced in my opinion, SUSE's price of 60 bucks is a great deal when you consider the quality of the documentation you get.
Re: Finally tried installing Ubuntu
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:50 am
by Jza
Judland wrote:So, this afternoon I thought I'd finally give Ubuntu a try. I proceeded to install it on my test system.
Well, I can confidently say, this distro. ain't for me.
The thing that ticked me off was that I had no root account. Where the hell's my root account? Why didn't it ask me to set a root password?
What, any user can execute root commands with sudo? What the hell kind of security is that?
That took a whole two minutes for me to say no to Ubuntu. It's getting wiped as I type this.
Is this like linspire opposite? I think this is for end users because you cant be root at all.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:10 pm
by Vogateer
Cant you simply do "sudo su" and run "passwd" to get a root account in Ubuntu? Maybe I'm confused about that, but if that's the case it wouldn't seem like a big deal to run two CLI commands to get what one wants. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on this.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:13 pm
by Judland
Something like that, I suppose, Jza.
I'll play around with Mandriva Free for a while. What I'm also doing is looking for a good "all around" distro. to recommend to the LUG group I started at the company I work for.
Some of the people in the LUG have modern PC hardware, but I'm sure most of them want to begin by converting an older machine to try Linux themselves.
So far, Mandriva seems to be performing quite adequately on my old PIII with 194MB of RAM.
I've just finished doing an upgrade and I'll say that there certainly seems to be some improvements to Rpmdrake. It is very explanatory as to why this or that package needs to be upgraded and what the results will provide. However, I'll have to take some time and re-acquaint myself with it's ins and outs.
The first thing that surprised me was how Mandriva asked for CD "X" when I came to install some other applications I wanted on hand. I've been using package managers that rely on on-line repositories for so long that I forgot that this was how it used to be done.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:17 pm
by snarkout
Vogateer wrote:Cant you simply do "sudo su" and run "passwd" to get a root account in Ubuntu? Maybe I'm confused about that, but if that's the case it wouldn't seem like a big deal to run two CLI commands to get what one wants. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on this.
You are correct, though I don't really see the advantage on a single user system. Beyond that, though, everything you interact with on the desktop expects your user's password, not your root pasword, even after you do that. It's been my experience that new users haev an especially hard time with the idea of two passwords, and for this reason alone, perhaps sudo is a good middle ground for desktop systems. It does reduce security somewhat, but I don't personally feel that it's to an appreciable degree, as long as you aren't running a lot of internet facing services.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:24 pm
by Judland
Vogateer wrote:Cant you simply do "sudo su" and run "passwd" to get a root account in Ubuntu? Maybe I'm confused about that, but if that's the case it wouldn't seem like a big deal to run two CLI commands to get what one wants. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken on this.
I guess I'm just too "old school". I like my root account separate from my user accounts. That's one of the reasons I prefer Linux over other OSs.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:26 pm
by Jza
Judland wrote:
The first thing that surprised me was how Mandriva asked for CD "X" when I came to install some other applications I wanted on hand. I've been using package managers that rely on on-line repositories for so long that I forgot that this was how it used to be done.
That is because you still have your CD repositories on your sources. One of the thing we do is that I replace the cd sources with the 'main' source on one of the servers that you can pick up with EasyURPMI.
Once replacing tht you are free to go.
BTW you do this by going to mcc > Software management > Select from where....
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:34 pm
by Judland
Thanks, Jza.
After I posted that I went searching for my repository list and found what you referred to. Again, it's been a long time and it took me a while to remember all of this stuff again.
I think I'll also take some time and check out Mandriva's Live/Install CD, "Mandriva One". This might be a good suggestion for the LUG....
if Mandriva Free manages to impress me enough.
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:38 pm
by Tsuroerusu
Judland wrote:The first thing that surprised me was how Mandriva asked for CD "X" when I came to install some other applications I wanted on hand. I've been using package managers that rely on on-line repositories for so long that I forgot that this was how it used to be done.
Just open up MCC and find the place where you manage installation sources, uncheck the checkboxes from all of the CD sources and click OK, now open up a terminal, go root with su, and fire away these commands:
Code: Select all
urpmi.addmedia plf-free ftp://ftp.easynet.fr/plf/mandriva/free/2006.0/i586 with hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia plf-nonfree ftp://ftp.easynet.fr/plf/mandriva/non-free/2006.0/i586 with hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia --update updates http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/Mandrakelinux/official/updates/2006.0/main_updates/ with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia main http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/Mandrakelinux/official/2006.0/i586/media/main with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia contrib http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/Mandrakelinux/official/2006.0/i586/media/contrib with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia jpackage http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/distro/Mandrakelinux/official/2006.0/i586/media/jpackage with media_info/hdlist.cz
urpmi.addmedia SoS-2006 http://seerofsouls.com/mandriva/2006/i586/2006/ with hdlist.cz
(Notice that I list canadian mirrors for a reason Jud'
)
After you've executed them one by one, go open up the install part of RPM drake and try doing a search for things like vlc, mplayer, libdvdcss and so forth, they're all available right here. The last command is for the SeerOfSouls repository which also has stuff like Firefox 1.5, and a lot of backports, if you want KDE 3.5, you can go take a look here:
http://seerofsouls.com/rpm2006.html
Do read the release notes on upgrading to KDE 3.5, because there can be a few hickups here and there.