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Beryl is extremely nice and it works really well if you can use the open source driver. I have been having issues with Beryl crashing alot. I just thought after upgrading drivers I would try living in it for a while but it crashed X big time. So back to normal X.org and Metacity. I'll wait for the next Beryl update before trying it again. I'll also look around and see if I can find anything regarding Beryl and ATI's X1400 Mobility chip which is what is in my Lenovo T60 Thinkpad. Anyone got any ideas why Beryl's up and crashing?? I know, I know....Beryl's not really stable yet but damn it worked GREAT on my old T42 which happens to have a ATI chip also, BUT it's not supported by fglrx unlike the X1400. Anyway, it seems to be ok for a long while under Metacity.

By the way, this is one awesome machine. It only has the Core Duo chip but it performs very well and edgy went on it so smoothly. Even the wireless chip worked out of the box. One thing I want to know is why the hell Network Manager isn't installed by default in Edgy? Oh well. Guess it may be there for Feisty Fawn.

gorkon wrote:Anyone got any ideas why Beryl's up and crashing??

Beryl has still not had a stable release, the stuff you are using are CVS or SVN, or whatever they're using for their version control system, snapshots.

gorkon wrote:I know, I know....Beryl's not really stable yet but damn it worked GREAT on my old T42 which happens to have a ATI chip also

That wouldn't happen to be an X300 would it?

gorkon wrote:BUT it's not supported by fglrx unlike the X1400.

The fglrx module does not support AIGLX, so you have to install Xglx (or Xgl) to use any sort of special effects with ATi's crappy fglrx driver.
Older ATi cards using the R300 chips has free drivers, and because of that, the X developers have just added the newer X extensions needed for AIGLX when they wanted to.
ATi's fglrx driver uses an old-ass version of DRI that can't do AIGLX at all, so it requires a bit of a revamp of their driver to be able to support this, which is why I think the rumors of them trying to release documentation for their graphics cards, are true. Because that is so much easier, than having to invest time in rewriting huge parts of a crappy driver anyway. By giving the X developers the docs, they would get people who knows X in and out, to write the drivers.
Would benefit AMD/ATi and would benefit us as a community not having to like go through a fight of support when a newbie has problems with his ATi card because ATi's driver is a steaming pile of goatsh!t.

gorkon wrote:Anyway, it seems to be ok for a long while under Metacity.

Well, Metacity is not trying to do anything fancy, it's a good old window manager that has been in development for years.

gorkon wrote:One thing I want to know is why the hell Network Manager isn't installed by default in Edgy?

According to the Ubuntu folks, NetworkManager is still not at a level where they're comfortable including it in the distro itself.

Nah it's the X1400. By the way, Beryl works find on XGL too....

The link: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291464

It just crashes! Anyway, ....

I know it's unstable, but you can't fault me for trying. I was just used to the unstable version I have been using being pretty damn rock solid on the open source driver on my old machine. The old T42 had a Radeon Mobility 7550 (whatever it's called). Beryl ran extremely well AND I might add on a Meager setup to boot!

I'll watch Beryl for a long while and pay attention to where it's going. Same thing with AIGLX and XGL. Yes, technically it is eye candy, but I think the effects can play a big role in usability. When the "genie effect" on Mac OS X came out I initially thought big deal, but now I realize that it gives a user who is unfamiliar with WIMP environments a valuable visual queue on where the window went. I can't count the amount of times I have had to guide unfamiliar users through finding a Window. With a swoopy like effect, there's no question as to where it went.

gorkon wrote:Nah it's the X1400. By the way, Beryl works find on XGL too....

The link: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=291464

It just crashes! Anyway, ....

This is the reason Novell went with Xglx for SLED 10, it works with both ATi and NVIDIA graphics cards, and most laptops with a standalone graphics module these days, have ATi graphics.

gorkon wrote:I know it's unstable, but you can't fault me for trying.

YOU HACKER!!!
(Pun intended)

gorkon wrote:I was just used to the unstable version I have been using being pretty damn rock solid on the open source driver on my old machine. The old T42 had a Radeon Mobility 7550 (whatever it's called). Beryl ran extremely well AND I might add on a Meager setup to boot!

That would be an R300 based card for which there are free drivers which supports AIGLX, that's probably why it ran so well.

gorkon wrote:I'll watch Beryl for a long while and pay attention to where it's going. Same thing with AIGLX and XGL. Yes, technically it is eye candy, but I think the effects can play a big role in usability. When the "genie effect" on Mac OS X came out I initially thought big deal, but now I realize that it gives a user who is unfamiliar with WIMP environments a valuable visual queue on where the window went. I can't count the amount of times I have had to guide unfamiliar users through finding a Window. With a swoopy like effect, there's no question as to where it went.

There are a lot of effects that can make a big difference, I personally hate the genie effect, I think the way Compiz and Beryl does minimizing and fading is better, much easier on the eye and much faster.
But yes you are absolutely right, some effects help people understand stuff. The cube for instance can help people new to the concept of multiple desktops understand how you would use it.

wish I could help I have been using aiglx on my nvidia with beryl and it has been working awesome - takes less resources and plays the 3d games pretty darn good.

if you can aiglx is the way to go and you have to have nvidia's latest beta driver to use aiglx - it works great and is very stable - have not had any crashes or hiccups.

I am also using an older ati 7000 card which uses the open source driver and has always played 3d games pretty darn good. it also works great with aiglx and beryl - wife uses it on her computer and she likes it a lot and it too is very stable - no crashes or anything else.

still holding out hope that amd does something with ati and the drivers like release them open source -

jsusanka wrote:still holding out hope that amd does something with ati and the drivers like release them open source -

During an interview with Linux.com Keith Packard said that AMD/ATi is working on release specs for their hardware to enable the X developers to write drivers. Whether this is true or not I do not know, but if it is, if they pull it off, it would be way more valuable than open sourcing the drivers, with specs in hand we as a community can go write high quality drivers ourselves.

gorkon wrote:By the way, this is one awesome machine. It only has the Core Duo chip but it performs very well and edgy went on it so smoothly. Even the wireless chip worked out of the box.

I had 5 Thinkpads series laptops through the last three years - using both Linux and Windows. Of all the Thinkpads, I disliked the T60 the most - for various reasons. Under Linux it really isn't too bad - running much nicer than if Windows was installed. But the T60 pissed me off so much I thought to try System76 Gazelle (max'd out on extras) - I'm much happier (not the least of which, I wasn't paying the Windows OEM tax).

UC

I've thought about System76, but I'll probably end up getting another ThinkPad after my R52 goes. I like the idea of a laptop preloaded with Linux, but when I'd end up installing a different distro on it anyway, it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a Linux laptop. My ThinkPad R52 works flawlessly with Slackware, and as long as Lenovo keeps using Linux-friendly hardware, I can't imagine using anything else. I really like the build quality of ThinkPads, and the embedded security chip, fingerprint reader, and hard drive locking technologies are really nice.