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Pat brought this up the two episodes of Security Now that focused on the the Copy Protection/DRM mechanisms in Vista and how they will impact on computing/media as a whole. I finished listening to the two shows and man, it's a bit grim. I recommend checking out Episodes 74 and 75 of Security Now for some very interesting issues:

http://www.twit.tv/sn

Peter Gutmann has agreed to come on the show on 01/31. Instead of rehashing what was said in the paper and discussed on Security Now I think we should focus on the possible impact on Linux and BSD. That is what we really care about. TO HELL WITH VISTA!!

dann wrote:Pat brought this up the two episodes of Security Now that focused on the the Copy Protection/DRM mechanisms in Vista and how they will impact on computing/media as a whole. I finished listening to the two shows and man, it's a bit grim. I recommend checking out Episodes 74 and 75 of Security Now for some very interesting issues:

http://www.twit.tv/sn

You really do also need to listen to episode 73 to get an idea of how AACS works, if not, you won't know what they exactly are talking about.

Tsuroerusu wrote: You really do also need to listen to episode 73 to get an idea of how AACS works, if not, you won't know what they exactly are talking about.

Good point, I'm pulling that down now to listen to.

With this weeks show and Peter coming on next week I almost wish I was just a listener so I could focus more on all this great content.

dann wrote:

Tsuroerusu wrote: You really do also need to listen to episode 73 to get an idea of how AACS works, if not, you won't know what they exactly are talking about.

Good point, I'm pulling that down now to listen to.

With this weeks show and Peter coming on next week I almost wish I was just a listener so I could focus more on all this great content.

Hey, if you ever need a temporary stand-in, I'd be happy to help out whenever I can.

ironic as it may sound, blue ray seems to be cracked now along with hd-dvd a few weeks ago. Of course there are lots of legitimate linux users out, its just in case no linux media player will support those two formats , we can at least watch them, all be it illegally.

Tsuroerusu wrote: Hey, if you ever need a temporary stand-in, I'd be happy to help out whenever I can.

We'll keep that in mind when we fire Linc!

dann wrote:

Tsuroerusu wrote: Hey, if you ever need a temporary stand-in, I'd be happy to help out whenever I can.

We'll keep that in mind when we fire Linc!

Or when Pat has multiple, very young, kids!

Won't that be keeping him busy?

Patrick wrote:I think we should focus on the possible impact on Linux and BSD. That is what we really care about. TO HELL WITH VISTA!!

indeed, if things really are bad I'd guess a lot of people will look at alternatives for their next upgrade or sadly they will just upgrade regardless and just moan a lot more!

Whatever the case, the community may be able to maximize the bad publicity Vista may get via blogs, postings etc.

After Internet Explorer 7 broke our church's website, I've had absolutely no success getting anyone to even attempt to download Firefox. This sort of experience has soured me on the idea that any significant number of people are going to try anything different. Unless you get linux in the schools and force people to learn it, most aren't even going to think of trying it.

People try to say that emulating the Windows UI is bad. I say it's the only way you're ever going to get even 60% of people to even think about switching. If they have to change the way they do anything, they'll not be happy with it, if they see the Start or Application menu at the top left, that's too big a change and they'll completely dismiss any notion of vaguely considering a trial run with it. I know people complain that if you emulate the Windows interface, they'll expect everything to be like Windows, and for it to run Windows apps. That may be a problem, but is that really worse than people never even trying Linux at all? Maybe it is, I honestly don't know. I just think that you won't even get in the door without something that comes terribly close to the Windows interface, horrid as it may be.

My sister has been willing to learn Gnome, and it's working okay for her, but most people aren't like her. It's just like when I try to tell people Firefox is better because of standards, features, and so on. Doesn't work. Unless you make it ridiculously easy and absolutely necessary, “Use Firefox, or spyware and viruses will break and ruin your computer,” people don't listen.

Vogateer wrote:If they have to change the way they do anything, they'll not be happy with it, if they see the Start or Application menu at the top left, that's too big a change and they'll completely dismiss any notion of vaguely considering a trial run with it.

I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't seem to be bothering Apple from, albeit slowly, gaining more market share. The Mac UI has some very significant differences from Windows, and yet people have no problem with that.

The same way that people don't have a problem with shelling out hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for an Apple computer to be able to use Mac OS X, people whine and moan about buying even a piece of shit 10 dollar sound card to be able to run Linux.

Most people I've met don't like OS X until after they've used it for at least a month or so, then they—rightfully—start to hate Windows. We run all Macs at work, and a lot of people, after forced to use them, start to prefer them. If you can force people to use Linux, they tend to like it better, too, after a while.

Apple's doing well, but note the change from Apple Computer to Apple. They're having more success with iPods—and I'd bet good money they'll have more success with the iPhone than any of their iMacs and MacBooks over the long term—than with their computers.

Tsuroerusu wrote:The same way that people don't have a problem with shelling out hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for an Apple computer to be able to use Mac OS X, people whine and moan about buying even a piece of shat 10 dollar sound card to be able to run Linux.

Yeah, but the difference is, is that people see the Apple as a full system and worth the price where as a sound card, while it may only be $10.00, requires them to open their machine and install it; which is too daunting a task. Sure they could have someone install it for them, but now that $10.00 sound card is getting closer to $50.00, $75.00 or maybe over $100.00.

For the average user it's easier to just buy a new system than it is to get hardware upgrades. Hell, I doubt most of the even know they can upgrade their hardware.

Vogateer wrote:Most people I've met don't like OS X until after they've used it for at least a month or so, then they—rightfully—start to hate Windows. We run all Macs at work, and a lot of people, after forced to use them, start to prefer them. If you can force people to use Linux, they tend to like it better, too, after a while.

Apple's doing well, but note the change from Apple Computer to Apple. They're having more success with iPods—and I'd bet good money they'll have more success with the iPhone than any of their iMacs and MacBooks over the long term—than with their computers.

Well, Apple's success with the iPod has made people aware of Apple. I know several people who have been curious about "Mac", because they have an iPod and it creates a kind of connection of some sort. People have looked at Mac OS X and thought it looked cool and stuff.

And looking at the recent reports Apple published, their Mac sales are not like slow or anything.

dann wrote:

Tsuroerusu wrote:The same way that people don't have a problem with shelling out hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for an Apple computer to be able to use Mac OS X, people whine and moan about buying even a piece of shat 10 dollar sound card to be able to run Linux.

Yeah, but the difference is, is that people see the Apple as a full system and worth the price where as a sound card, while it may only be $10.00, requires them to open their machine and install it; which is too daunting a task. Sure they could have someone install it for them, but now that $10.00 sound card is getting closer to $50.00, $75.00 or maybe over $100.00.

For the average user it's easier to just buy a new system than it is to get hardware upgrades. Hell, I doubt most of the even know they can upgrade their hardware.

OK, well then let's take another example. I doubt people would buy a system from System76 just to be able to run Linux, but they'd more than happily pay for an Apple computer.

Perceptions are hard to change. People didn't buy Apples before because they were so much more expensive. The price difference isn't nearly so great as it what it was before, and I'll freely admit that I prefer the look of Apple computers to just about anything else. Apple has a reputation for being easier to use, but more importantly they're beautiful machines that people don't mind being seen in their homes. In fact they'll show them off.

System76 has no name recognition, no reputation to the average user, and uses linux, which everyone has been told is hard to use.