US Internet Tax Moratorium Extended

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:52 am

Nice to see that at least something won't have its taxes increased in the near future. Though note that VoIP can still be taxed.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,11883 ... ticle.html

adder1972 · Post by **adder1972** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:50 pm

25% tax (VAT) on everything here in Norway - even the broadband connection. And that's after 43% income tax on my salary....

allix · Post by **allix** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:08 pm

adder1972 wrote:25% tax (VAT) on everything here in Norway - even the broadband connection. And that's after 43% income tax on my salary....

However don't you have a free universal health care , free education up to any level, free grants for students that study, reasonable unemployment benefits , real democracy and other benefits Americans can only dream of.

At least that's what one of my friend says about Danmark and i know Sweden is similar.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:09 pm

Much as I critique the American political system, it's certainly unfair to suggest that the U.S.A. don't have a "real" democracy, if by democracy you mean to include representative governments like republics.

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:51 pm

Vogateer wrote:Much as I critique the American political system, it's certainly unfair to suggest that the U.S.A. don't have a "real" democracy, if by democracy you mean to include representative governments like republics.

Democracy? HA! The next president of the United States has already been chosen by powerful interests and corporate media, and there has yet to be a single vote cast. The media marginalizes any candidates it feels threatened by, and excludes them from debates. Anyone notice Mike Gravel in the previous Democratic debate? Exactly. NBC Universal decided to exclude him because they didn't like his anti-war rhetoric, and NBC Universal is owned by General Electric, a leading military contractor, and major profiteer from the "War on Terrorism".

That being said, I do love my country, it is one of the freest in the world, but the fact that it has been taken over by big business and powerful, special interests has me genuinely troubled. The general apathy most people seem to have towards politics in this country isn't helping matters, either.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?". /sarcasm

allix · Post by **allix** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:22 pm

Vogateer wrote:Much as I critique the American political system, it's certainly unfair to suggest that the U.S.A. don't have a "real" democracy, if by democracy you mean to include representative governments like republics.

That's what I mean.

allix · Post by **allix** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:31 pm

Wally Balljacker wrote:
Vogateer wrote:Much as I critique the American political system, it's certainly unfair to suggest that the U.S.A. don't have a "real" democracy, if by democracy you mean to include representative governments like republics.
Democracy? HA! The next president of the United States has already been chosen by powerful interests and corporate media, and there has yet to be a single vote cast. The media marginalizes any candidates it feels threatened by, and excludes them from debates. Anyone notice Mike Gravel in the previous Democratic debate? Exactly. NBC Universal decided to exclude him because they didn't like his anti-war rhetoric, and NBC Universal is owned by General Electric, a leading military contractor, and major profiteer from the "War on Terrorism".

That being said, I do love my country, it is one of the freest in the world, but the fact that it has been taken over by big business and powerful, special interests has me genuinely troubled. The general apathy most people seem to have towards politics in this country isn't helping matters, either.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?". /sarcasm

That's right, the uk is no different.
The general apathy is the main reason both countries can get to run the way they do.

Freedom of speech in both countries does not really mean anything in the sense that , you and I and anyone else can criticise as much as we want the governments we live under however most of the time its just being ignored.
Where as in other countries like say China , freedom of speech can cause a rapid change in the country.

If you look at history in the USA and UK , freedom of speech took many centuries to appear. Nowadays we take it for granted.

What I am getting at is , do free countries really exist?

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:31 pm

allix wrote:What I am getting at is, do free countries really exist?

Well, I think some are freer than others. America certainly has many civil liberties worth fighting for, like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, etc, despite attempts to suppress them. Thankfully, I can criticize the US government all I want, and I don't have to worry about being jailed or killed.

I think there are definitely better political systems to put in place of what we have now, that put more power and freedom in the hands of citizens, but that is a debate for another forum.

adder1972 · Post by **adder1972** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:07 am

allix wrote:
adder1972 wrote:25% tax (VAT) on everything here in Norway - even the broadband connection. And that's after 43% income tax on my salary....
However don't you have a free universal health care , free education up to any level, free grants for students that study, reasonable unemployment benefits , real democracy and other benefits Americans can only dream of.

At least that's what one of my friend says about Danmark and i know Sweden is similar.

It's not free - its pre-payed by me.

allix · Post by **allix** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:19 am

adder1972 wrote:
allix wrote:
adder1972 wrote:25% tax (VAT) on everything here in Norway - even the broadband connection. And that's after 43% income tax on my salary....
However don't you have a free universal health care , free education up to any level, free grants for students that study, reasonable unemployment benefits , real democracy and other benefits Americans can only dream of.

At least that's what one of my friend says about Danmark and i know Sweden is similar.
It's not free - its pre-payed by me.

well it has to be either through taxes or private insurance.
If a country cannot make enough money through exporting then the money has to come from somewhere...
One could easily argue how the taxing system should work like until you earn/receive up to xzy amount you have a lower or zero tax to pay.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:29 am

I always love how people point to problems in our system and claim we don't have a real democracy. Just because are system is flawed and has tremendous corruption doesn't mean our democracy isn't real. We still vote for and decide what politicians take office (though we need some serious ballot access reform, too), the problem is most people are gullible enough to vote for corrupt politicians that bring pork projects to their states. That doesn't make it a fake democracy, like elections in the former U.S.S.R., where the candidates were truly decided beforehand, it just makes it flawed, like every other system we humans have ever devised.