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Sound Issues
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:36 am
by ukbb
Good grief they've been transmitting voice and music since Christmas Eve of 1906 when Reginald A. Fessenden's experiment freaked out a bunch of ship radio operators. Wny can't we get this right in this day and age?
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:49 am
by Patrick
ukbb wrote:Good grief they've been transmitting voice and music since Christmas Eve of 1906 when Reginald A. Fessenden's experiment freaked out a bunch of ship radio operators. Why can't we get this right in this day and age?
Welcome to the forum. Are you referring to the sound quality of the show?. If so we've talked about it many many times. Please read this:
http://tllts.org/wiki/index.php?n=Main. ... dioQuality
That being said we would like to improve the sound quality. We are researching how to do this within Asterisk since voice calls are limited to 8 kbps per call. Not exactly high fidelity. If you're an Asterisk guru we'd love to hear your suggestions.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:19 pm
by NYbill
a quick FYI... i haven't heard it yet. but, i see the new HPR in my phone. seems its on asterisk.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:41 pm
by hellonorman
1. We are all from different locations in the US and each host has different conditions they have to deal with. We do try to mitigate the issues as much as possible, but sometimes it just can't be fixed.
2. We use a technology called VoIP utilizing the Open Source program called Asterisk. Since Asterisk is designed for voice phone calls, it is not designed to handle high bitrates since you don't need a high bitrate for phone calls. This makes us all sound like we're on the phone at a radio station.
3. While we do care about quality, the higher quality of file we create, the bigger the download for you. This affects both you the listener and the show as we have to PAY for the download bandwidth and you also have a longer download if we use higher bitrates. You also have a higher chance at hitting your ISP cap if we have a bigger file. We care about quality, but since we care about the bottom line of both the show and you, the listener, we need to use a lower quality file. It saves us and you bandwidth and you download time.
4. Lastly, you, the listener, receives the content for free and will always be able to receive the content for free. That doesn't mean we don't have costs. It costs each host for their recording setup and ISP. That cost is significant. While it would be great if we got paid to do the show, we do not. That means everything comes out of our own pockets including travel costs to the Ohio Linux Fest and South East Linux Fest which are two events we cover almost every year for the last 3-4 years. We do this because we love Linux and Open Source software and we want to contribute to the community by sharing information, reviewing products, interviewing Open Source community members and sharing our experiences with Open Source software. This is a labor of love, but it's not a cost free one. If you would like to contribute, there is a paypal button on the TLLTS Home page. If everyone of our listeners contributed some money every month, we still could not do the show without costs. Now if you know of a company that can sponsor the show with enough money where we could all quit our jobs, then I would expect quality to increase but since this is not likely to happen, we have what we have for now and that's it. If you know of a company who can sponsor us, we're always open to that so long as they are a Open Source company or one that produces devices that are supported on Linux
If you would just say something straightforward like, we are unwilling to spend any money to improve sound quality. Or we don't understand how to get better quality from the open source software we use. Or even the open source software we use is unable to produce the results seen by most podcasters. There would be little to argue about if you said those things.
However when you try and justify them it gets messy. I mean the sound quality sucked even when you were all together in the same room so the distance now just comes off as an excuse. Then you switch gears and act like you are intentionally keeping sound quality very poor because you care so much about the listeners that you have to keep the file size down. Seriously? Did someone just finish a book called The Art of the Corporate Speak Excuse? If the show doubled it's filesize every week it would be of little consequence to the Listener.
I think that you should change the entry to my original suggestion and just have one line that reads...We are unwilling to spend any money to improve sound quality. It's straightforward, concise and leaves out any unconvincing excuses.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:44 am
by Patrick
hellonorman wrote:I think that you should change the entry to my original suggestion and just have one line that reads...We are unwilling to spend any money to improve sound quality. It's straightforward, concise and leaves out any unconvincing excuses.
And what shall we spend our money on? What windows based solution will correct our sound woes?!
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:31 pm
by hellonorman
Patrick wrote:hellonorman wrote:I think that you should change the entry to my original suggestion and just have one line that reads...We are unwilling to spend any money to improve sound quality. It's straightforward, concise and leaves out any unconvincing excuses.
And what shall we spend our money on? What windows based solution will correct our sound woes?!
I'm not a podcaster so I have no idea. I listen to quite a few podcasts that have perfectly acceptable audio quality in a wide range of fidelity so I know it can be done.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:01 am
by dann
Please point me to the podcasts that use the same technology or similar technology we do with as many hosts/guests coming in from various sources of which we have no control that has any better sound quality than we do.
The only way I see of improving anything at this point is to move to skype and if we do that we cut off a channel by which people can communicate with us.
Say what you will but Asterisk has been the most flexible solution we have ever implemented.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:03 am
by dann
ukbb wrote:Good grief they've been transmitting voice and music since Christmas Eve of 1906 when Reginald A. Fessenden's experiment freaked out a bunch of ship radio operators. Wny can't we get this right in this day and age?
Are you talking about the sound quality of the recordings or the general sound issues we have prior to most shows when broadcasting live?
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:59 am
by hellonorman
dann wrote:Please point me to the podcasts that use the same technology or similar technology we do with as many hosts/guests coming in from various sources of which we have no control that has any better sound quality than we do.
The only way I see of improving anything at this point is to move to skype and if we do that we cut off a channel by which people can communicate with us.
Say what you will but Asterisk has been the most flexible solution we have ever implemented.
I've heard podcasts that use talkshoe and sound pretty good with many participants from various locations. But I don't really delve too deeply into the inner workings of every podcast that I listen to. I just thought the corporate speak excuse by numbers wiki entry that Pat immediately referenced was poor. One can't read that and not get the impression that money could improve everything and that you are doing the listeners a favor by keeping quality and file size low intentionally.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:32 pm
by Tyler
I really don't think that the sound quality is bad and just as dann has said with the amount of people and tech used to connect everyone together there are bound to be factors that are out of their control. I work closely with distance education at a community college and even with expensive equipment (racks and racks of mixers and hardware codecs), 10 to 1Gbit links to our sites, and 24 hour tech support. We still have some issues with quality and usually they are so mind-bending or minute that it takes quite along time to sort out the problem.
Alot of the issues take time and sometimes throwing money doesn't do a dang thing. Time and money seems to be something that people are in short supply of these days. They have a great thing going and there setup has functioned just fine for quite a while and I think they should stick to it.
I for one think they do an awesome job!
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:16 pm
by spotslayer
I don't have much input as to how to improve anything, but the sound is not a problem for me. For me the content makes any sound issue irrelevant. It could be a lot worse and I would still listen.
David
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:46 am
by ken_fallon
hellonorman wrote:
I'm not a podcaster so I have no idea. I listen to quite a few podcasts that have perfectly acceptable audio quality in a wide range of fidelity so I know it can be done.
I listen to a lot of podcasts as well and I would like to let you into a little secret: TLLTS is not a podcast, it's a live radio show that is released after the fact in in podcast form. I'd be interested in hearing about any of the podcasts that you listen to that are recorded live that have better quality than TLLTS. Don't bother to list any of the TWiT shows as Leo freely admits he could never afford the bandwidth they have donated to them.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:11 pm
by hellonorman
ken_fallon wrote:hellonorman wrote:
I'm not a podcaster so I have no idea. I listen to quite a few podcasts that have perfectly acceptable audio quality in a wide range of fidelity so I know it can be done.
I listen to a lot of podcasts as well and I would like to let you into a little secret: TLLTS is not a podcast, it's a live radio show that is released after the fact in in podcast form. I'd be interested in hearing about any of the podcasts that you listen to that are recorded live that have better quality than TLLTS. Don't bother to list any of the TWiT shows as Leo freely admits he could never afford the bandwidth they have donated to them.
I didn't mention any twit shows but I did mention talkshoe shows which I believe are recorded live. But it was the wiki entry referenced immediately by Pat that led me to believe that the sound quality and file size was intentionally kept low because they care about the listener. Also that distance was an issue even though the quality was no better when they were all in the same room. Thus my suggestion for some straightforward statements that leave out unconvincing excuses.
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:59 pm
by mowestusa
I have no idea what would improve your sound quality, for that reason I have never complained about it. I usually don't catch the live show, but the recorded show for the most part is pretty good most weeks. Personally, I can understand that when a guest is calling in from overseas, that the sound quality may not be as great, but often times they sound pretty good too.
For me personally it seems like a few of you have issues with the input on your ends. I don't know what Allan does, but he sounds great every week, and if there is an issue with his voice, he is able to adjust his levels on his end so that he sounds good. Pat sounds clear and consistent from week to week. Dann, you sound good too, but sometimes the sounds of making supper creates some extra static
. Linc is usually good, but he has been MIA a number of times in the last few months so it is hard to gauge if he is having audio difficulties. I have trouble with Joel on the recording at times. He seems to have the hardest time making adjustments on his end so that he sounds consistent from week to week like Pat and Allan and Dann. The times I have trouble hearing the guests is when Joel talks over them.
Personally, I'm amazed at the quality of the show, and the recording quality. I do feel that the Linux Outlaws have a better recorded sound quality, but I feel that most of their success is due to having only two guys and then taking the time to do lots of post production work. I believe Fab mentioned spending 4+ hours editing their show. If you are going to spend that much time in post production and use the original recordings from each side (I believe they mix together the audio of just Fab and just Dann on another track in post production) then you can have that kind of audio quality. Also I believe most weeks they use Skype which might provide better quality than the 8k. So way to go guys. Considering the number of sources you are trying to record at once, and wanting to use tools under Linux, we perhaps can't ask for more. I've been thankful for almost 365 shows!
Re: Sound Issues
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:29 pm
by fahq
Why doesn't Dann post a diagram or picture of how he's got everything setup. Surely there are some audiofiles that can look at it and tell you what to do. I for one would just be happy if I didn't have to listen to the buzz feedback from the computer and Joel.