Mepis will now use Ubuntu as a base

Post by **Patrick** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:08 am

Just got this in my inbox:

Morgantown, WV, march 21, 2006: MEPIS founder Warren Woodford has announced a
test release of SimplyMEPIS 6.0, incorporating software from the Ubuntu
Dapper package pools. This is the first version of SimplyMEPIS with an
Ubuntu base.

Ubuntu has a 6 month stable release cycle that will enable MEPIS to offer its
customers a dependable release schedule. Woodford states "The switch to the
Ubuntu pools was made to provide our users with a more stable underlying
system. Of course it's important for our users that MEPIS remains true to
its unique vision. I believe this release demonstrates that we can combine
the magic of the MEPIS user experience with the goodness of the Ubuntu
foundation."

Woodford comments on the experience of porting SimplyMEPIS; "At the time we
built SimplyMEPIS 3.4.3, the Debian Etch package base was very similar to the
final Ubuntu packages in Breezy. So I suppose the port was not much
different than upgrading Ubuntu from Breezy to Dapper. Of course there are
implementation and artistic differences. We'll incorporate the Ubuntu
differences into MEPIS when it fits our model and vision, likewise we'll
offer our ideas and changes back to Ubuntu. We hope this is the beginning of
a fun and productive collaboration."

MEPIS believes this step will improve the flow of code between MEPIS and
Debian. Woodford says: "Ubuntu and Debian are closely related. Periodically
Ubuntu grabs a snapshot of Debian unstable, makes improvements and bug fixes,
and then contributes those bug fixes and improvements back to the Debian
source code tree. If we work with Ubuntu and Canonical to help improve
Ubuntu as a foundation for MEPIS Linux products, then ultimately Debian
should also benefit."

Mark Shuttleworth, founder of Canonical, said "Collaboration with MEPIS will
help Ubuntu offer even higher quality desktop packages for KDE users, and
expands the number of people who can benefit from our work on system
integration, desktop polish and Linux kernel reliability. The MEPIS
community is vibrant and energetic and it will be exciting to be able to work
more closely with them, while still respecting the ways in which Ubuntu and
MEPIS are distinct."

Woodford continues, "This release is a sneak peek, if you will. There are
integration issues and new features that have not yet been addressed for
SimplyMEPIS 6.0 and the Dapper pools are still being improved. However, we
want to make it available to our subscribers now, so we can get their
feedback before proceeding any further." This experimental release is
available for download in the 'snapshot' directory at the MEPIS Subscribers
ftp site. Feedback should be sent to dev@mepis.com.

About MEPIS
MEPIS LLC was founded in 2003 by computer industry veteran Warren Woodford, to
realize his personal vision for a version of Linux that was easy to try, easy
to install, and easy to use. Today MEPIS offers innovative Linux solutions
for home users, businesses, hardware vendors, and vertical market early
adopters.

About Ubuntu/Canonical
Ubuntu is a free software GNU/Linux distribution that aims to provide a high
quality desktop featuring the best of the free software application universe.
The project is primarily funded by Canonical, Ltd, which also runs
Launchpad.net, a free software web collaboration site. Canonical, Ltd is
headquartered in Douglas on the Isle of Man.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:26 am

I think this is good news, finally MEPIS users won't suffer from the mess that the Debian testing/unstable pools sometimes can be, and since Ubuntu is good at incorporating new versions of GNOME and KDE, I think this relationship is only gonna benefit MEPIS.

I just hope they remove the crappy Kubuntu customizations of Konqueror and the KDE menus, because that just looks like crap to me.

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:41 am

I'm still not convinced this is a good idea. Ubuntu is already based on Debian testing/unstable, so basing MEPIS on Ubuntu seems like it would create more problems than it would fix. This just means that instead of broken Debian unstable pools, he'll have to deal with broken Ubuntu Dapper pools.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:59 am

Wally Balljacker wrote:I'm still not convinced this is a good idea. Ubuntu is already based on Debian testing/unstable, so basing MEPIS on Ubuntu seems like it would create more problems than it would fix. This just means that instead of broken Debian unstable pools, he'll have to deal with broken Ubuntu Dapper pools.

LOL, why would that be? If MEPIS has an sources.list file almost identical to Ubuntu's why would it cause broken Ubuntu pools?

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:05 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote:
Wally Balljacker wrote:I'm still not convinced this is a good idea. Ubuntu is already based on Debian testing/unstable, so basing MEPIS on Ubuntu seems like it would create more problems than it would fix. This just means that instead of broken Debian unstable pools, he'll have to deal with broken Ubuntu Dapper pools.
LOL, why would that be? If MEPIS has an sources.list file almost identical to Ubuntu's why would it cause broken Ubuntu pools?

Because Ubuntu isn't perfect. Things can break in their pools too.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:23 pm

Wally Balljacker wrote:Because Ubuntu isn't perfect. Things can break in their pools too.

Of course, and I think I've said that too before on this very board, but the main Ubuntu pools are basically the Ubuntu equivilants to Debian's stable pool so why would it suddenly brake? I doubt Mark would like his users to wake up to a broken desktop after an upgrade overnight.

thetza · Post by **thetza** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:30 am

wonderful, time for another silly name merger! what is it going to be this time, Mepibuntu, Ubuntis, Upistu, Mepuntu!?!

Seriously though, Mr. Balljacker has a valid point; Mepis is now dependent on ubuntu for their underlying stability, which means another single-point-of-failure for mepis users.

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:08 am

thetza wrote:wonderful, time for another silly name merger! what is it going to be this time, Mepibuntu, Ubuntis, Upistu, Mepuntu!?!

Seriously though, Mr. Balljacker has a valid point; Mepis is now dependent on ubuntu for their underlying stability, which means another single-point-of-failure for mepis users.

Yeah, I mean I can understand how Ubuntu's pools are probably alittle less chaotic than Debian testing/unstable, but if there's a problem with Ubuntu, that's an issue MEPIS has to deal with. You're doubling your chances of issues, basically. I guess this also means MEPIS won't be a part of the DCC Alliance anymore either, since Ubuntu packages aren't compatible with Debian, MEPIS packages will no longer be compatible. That's one thing MEPIS always had going for it - you could grab any standard Debian package and install it.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:18 am

thetza wrote:Seriously though, Mr. Balljacker has a valid point; Mepis is now dependent on ubuntu for their underlying stability, which means another single-point-of-failure for mepis users.

You are just changing from one point of failure to another, and Debian's testing/unstable pools was troublesome for MEPIS' development because they have changing quite rapidly over the last 8 - 9 months. And if MEPIS were to be based on Debian stable, you would either have to have your user moaning about the old version of KDE you would be shipping, or have a hell of a lot of backports in place, which would just be like sausage in the end.

Wally Balljacker wrote:Yeah, I mean I can understand how Ubuntu's pools are probably alittle less chaotic than Debian testing/unstable, but if there's a problem with Ubuntu, that's an issue MEPIS has to deal with. You're doubling your chances of issues, basically.

Why would MEPIS be doubling it's chance of issues? They already had issues with Debian's pools and they are just switching, kinda like Apple is dumping PPC for Intel, they are not doing both in the end, so they depend on Intel not IBM. And if MEPIS just stick to Ubuntu's stable pools, I seriously doubt they're gonna have issues, I doubt Ubuntu would've become so popular if it's main pools was unstable now and then, then SUSE would probably take it's first place on Distrowatch

Wally Balljacker wrote:I guess this also means MEPIS won't be a part of the DCC Alliance anymore either, since Ubuntu packages aren't compatible with Debian, MEPIS packages will no longer be compatible. That's one thing MEPIS always had going for it - you could grab any standard Debian package and install it.

I think Warren already said that he has left the DCC Alliance, this point I can certainly understand, but after hearing about the issues MEPIS had in developing their recent version, I think stability in the package pools is more important, then MEPIS can just let the Ubuntu guys do all the work in stabilizing their pools and when it's frozen as whatever weird-ass name Mark comes up with, they can just grab the packages they need off of that and they're good to go.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:58 am

It's probably just me, but I really don't have the desire to get behind any distros. that don't innovate in some way (other than in marketing strategies).

Distros. like Ubuntu and Mepis are such distros., from my own point of view. Personally, I feel that Linspire has contributed more to the global Linux community than these two distros.

It's difficult to explain and I don't know what it is, but there's something about Ubuntu, Mepis (and a small handful of other distros.) that always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:19 am

Judland wrote:It's probably just me, but I really don't have the desire to get behind any distros. that don't innovate in some way (other than in marketing strategies).

Yeah I agree with you on that, it's funny how stuff that's been around for a long long time can amaze people when somebody new comes around and tells you about in a little different way.

Judland wrote:Distros. like Ubuntu and Mepis are such distros., from my own point of view. Personally, I feel that Linspire has contributed more to the global Linux community than these two distros.

Linspire has certainly done a lot of good stuff, but their distro is like Windows... Insecure!!! They set you up with a freaking root account by default (I just tried installing it under VMware to see for sure), which is probably THE dumbest thing you could ever do for security on any UNIX or UNIX-like platform.

Judland wrote:It's difficult to explain and I don't know what it is, but there's something about Ubuntu, Mepis (and a small handful of other distros.) that always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Well, each person sees the world in a little different way, I would agree with you on some of your points.
I'm personally still behind SUSE for both servers and desktops, because I think they both innovate and have a great product, for example for 10.1 they redid their package manager entirely, along with integrating Beagle into KDE, new security stuff with AppArmor, and a lot of new mobility features such as full integration of NetworkManager (With both GNOME and KDE frontends) and powersaving stuff.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:45 am

Tsuroerusu wrote:Linspire has certainly done a lot of good stuff, but their distro is like Windows... Insecure!!! They set you up with a freaking root account by default (I just tried installing it under VMware to see for sure), which is probably THE dumbest thing you could ever do for security on any UNIX or UNIX-like platform.

Sure, Linspire could certainly improve, no doubt. Where they've innovated is in some of their applications that they've given back to the community.

Tsuroerusu wrote:I'm personally still behind SUSE for both servers and desktops, because I think they both innovate and have a great product, for example for 10.1 they redid their package manager entirely, along with integrating Beagle into KDE, new security stuff with AppArmor, and a lot of new mobility features such as full integration of NetworkManager (With both GNOME and KDE frontends) and powersaving stuff.

SUSE is not one of those few handful of distros. I made reference too. They have made some innovative contributions that I applaud. I just wish they wouldn't force me to upgrade my hardware in order to try their distro. That's the only reason why I haven't (and won't any time soon) tried their latest OS. But that's a choice they've made as an organization and I can respect that.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:56 am

I think it's a little ridiculous. A debian polisher polisher? What's next, a distro that bases itself off of Underground Desktop? Warren sounded like a nice guy, but this is seriously sounding like "It was fun to make my living off the back of Debian while it was rock-solid-stable, but it's a real hassle to take a snapshot of my own these days. So instead of debian, I'll base my distro off the hard work not only debian has done, but the hard work ubuntu has done to take a snapshot of it..." Maybe there's something more to it, I really couldn't say, but at first blush, it seems more or less this way.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:00 am

Sounds the same way to me, too. I say just merge and get it over with (shit or get off the pot, as an old employer of mine used to say)... sort of like what Mandriva did.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:02 am

Judland wrote:Sure, Linspire could certainly improve, no doubt. Where they've innovated is in some of their applications that they've given back to the community.

Yeah I agree with you on that, by the way, it's been a year since Linspire's last major release, do you have any idea of when they will do 5.5 or a 6.0 ?

Judland wrote:SUSE is not one of those few handful of distros. I made reference too. They have made some innovative contributions that I applaud. I just wish they wouldn't force me to upgrade my hardware in order to try their distro. That's the only reason why I haven't (and won't any time soon) tried their latest OS. But that's a choice they've made as an organization and I can respect that.

Hmmm, I ran SUSE 9.3, which was a little heavy, on an 800 MHz Pentium 3 machine with 256 MB of RAM, 80 GB hard drive and Geforce3 graphics card. It wasn't as snappy as it was on my main workstation, which is a 2.2 GHz AMD Athlon Barton XP machine with 1 GB of RAM...., but it was certainly useable, and it wasn't anything near annoying, worked very well.

Their exact system requirements for 10.0 reads, off of the box I bought:
"System Requirements
SUSE Linux 10.0 supports most PC hardware components. The following requirements should be met to ensure smooth operation of SUSE Linux. Processor: Intel Pentium® 1-4 or Xeon; AMD: Duron, Athlon, Athlon XP, Athlon MP, Athlon 64, Sempron or Opteron. Main memory: 256 MB (minimum), 512 MB (recommended). Hard disk: 500 MB (minimum), 2.5 GB (recommended). SUSE Linux supports most modern sound and graphics cards. For complete system requirements, visit: http://www.opensuse.org/sysreqs"

That is directly quoted off of the retail SUSE Linux box that you can buy in stores, now I'd like to see Bill Gates beat this for a modern, very slick looking operating system!

The SUSE system requirements might change for 10.1 as the community has been involved all the way through the development process of that release, actually it was community contributions that gave 10.0 a pretty good speed boost