Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

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jturning
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Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by jturning » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:16 pm

None of the functionality you describe can't be done on windows machines. Whether the software comes with the os or is easy installable is really of little consequence. I really don't think most people feel bled dry. I paid $99 for my copy of xp and have used it for four years, all the while being up to date and not having to reinstall to get the latest software. I've paid $50 for a top notch video editor and $50 for anydvd. The rest of my software is free cost. I hardly feel bled dry.
It's not there by default and there are many more examples I could go over, and to install on Windows you have to hunt down the software, determine trust, download, install, and hope it's secure. And I'm going to guess that you're using a lot of Free Software that has been ported to Windows since you haven't spent that much money. Are you using OpenOffice instead of Office? Much of the software you can add to Windows to gain similar functionality to Linux is Free Software from the same community you criticize below. How much free software are you using on Windows? It used to be before I switched to Linux that you had to pay for a lot of software, like a news aggregator, MP3 ripper..... Many things you get with your Linux install. Fortunately for Windows users the Free Software revolution has come to Windows too.
I agree that security is a big selling point. Most people become very interested in linux when the security aspect is brought up. Unfortunately as I have said previously it becomes moot when coupled with lack of functionality. Most feel safe enough with antivirus and spyware detectors.

I find the reinstall argument pretty weak. I find the reality is that you have to reinstall linux far more often than windows to keep up to date.
If your machine gets owned, how else will you be sure it's clean unless you re-install? A lot of the security software for Windows is just not that good being signature based with the new polymorphic malware. Actually, with the Windows registry mess and your machine degrading over time, you end up having to re-install to restore your machine's speed. Of course this depends on how much software you install and remove. Even Leo recommends you do a fresh install from 6 months to a year depending on what kind of user you are. I've never needed to re-install any of my Linux versions nor does their speed degrade over time, so your point here was stretched in the wrong direction. We upgrade to a newer version of Linux or try another distro because it's free and fun to do. Many versions of Linux are supported for a long period if you want to stick with what you have. Having your /home directory on its own partition makes installing/upgrading Linux pretty easy compared to Windows, especially with package management in Linux. I can get a new Linux distro up with software, config files edited, in a fraction of the time it would take me to do the same with an XP re-install.
Aside from the live cd you could have written this 10 years ago. Still not ready for the desktop. The foss community still hasn't shown that it can do the tedious work of fit and finish when it comes to desktop software.
Away from work I'm a full time Linux user with the exception of two map packages I use for planning hiking and backpacking trips (Wine might actually cover this need now or virtualization). I find the fit and finish of Linux just fine. I don't think I would have done more than play with Linux 10 years ago. But today it's better than Windows for me, and I wish I could use it at work. There are many bugs with my XP machine at work that annoy me over the course of the day. Consequently, Linux is still approaching that critical mass. As more people discover it, and more people develop for it, eventually Linux reaches a community around the world so large that a single software company can no longer compete just based on numbers. And software companies will eventually begin porting their advanced professional software to Linux once the economics are there. And in developing countries a Linux system gives you all the tools you need to become a developer including all the source code. Look at ATI/AMD and how they've embraced Linux and Free Software now, Intel, Dell, Lenovo.... So keep using your XP for now if that makes you happier, but keep watching. The story isn't over.
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hellonorman
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by hellonorman » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:56 pm

Gomer_X wrote:
hellonorman wrote:I have no idea why you would have to install 98 to upgrade to xp as that's not how xp upgrade discs work.
You're in need of a clue, then. :D That IS how the XP discs work. I don't OWN a full copy of XP. I own Windows 98 SE full and an XP upgrade, so I have to install 98 then upgrade.

No I think it's you that needs a clue. An xp upgrade disc is fully installable and would simply ask you to insert the 98 full disc to verify that you have it.

I have no desire to exchange hostilities about the rest.
"It's not a lie, if you really believe it"
--George Costanza

hellonorman
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by hellonorman » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:45 pm

jturning wrote: It's not there by default and there are many more examples I could go over, and to install on Windows you have to hunt down the software, determine trust, download, install, and hope it's secure. And I'm going to guess that you're using a lot of Free Software that has been ported to Windows since you haven't spent that much money. Are you using OpenOffice instead of Office? Much of the software you can add to Windows to gain similar functionality to Linux is Free Software from the same community you criticize below. How much free software are you using on Windows? It used to be before I switched to Linux that you had to pay for a lot of software, like a news aggregator, MP3 ripper..... Many things you get with your Linux install. Fortunately for Windows users the Free Software revolution has come to Windows too.
Bugz, come on now. I can't play an mp3 by "default" on a linux machine. Whether it's there by default or easily installable is really of little consequence.

There are many free programs for things like news aggregation and mp3 ripping. Some are open source and some are not.
If your machine gets owned, how else will you be sure it's clean unless you re-install? A lot of the security software for Windows is just not that good being signature based with the new polymorphic malware. Actually, with the Windows registry mess and your machine degrading over time, you end up having to re-install to restore your machine's speed. Of course this depends on how much software you install and remove. Even Leo recommends you do a fresh install from 6 months to a year depending on what kind of user you are. I've never needed to re-install any of my Linux versions nor does their speed degrade over time, so your point here was stretched in the wrong direction. We upgrade to a newer version of Linux or try another distro because it's free and fun to do. Many versions of Linux are supported for a long period if you want to stick with what you have. Having your /home directory on its own partition makes installing/upgrading Linux pretty easy compared to Windows, especially with package management in Linux. I can get a new Linux distro up with software, config files edited, in a fraction of the time it would take me to do the same with an XP re-install.
Chances are you will be re-installing linux much more often than xp. With a little planning an xp reinstall is pretty painless. But that's not even really the point. The point is this is not some feature that linux offers that would make people switch to it.
Away from work I'm a full time Linux user with the exception of two map packages I use for planning hiking and backpacking trips (Wine might actually cover this need now or virtualization). I find the fit and finish of Linux just fine. I don't think I would have done more than play with Linux 10 years ago. But today it's better than Windows for me, and I wish I could use it at work. There are many bugs with my XP machine at work that annoy me over the course of the day. Consequently, Linux is still approaching that critical mass. As more people discover it, and more people develop for it, eventually Linux reaches a community around the world so large that a single software company can no longer compete just based on numbers. And software companies will eventually begin porting their advanced professional software to Linux once the economics are there. And in developing countries a Linux system gives you all the tools you need to become a developer including all the source code. Look at ATI/AMD and how they've embraced Linux and Free Software now, Intel, Dell, Lenovo.... So keep using your XP for now if that makes you happier, but keep watching. The story isn't over.
Bugz I understand its fine for you and that it's fine for 0.8% of computer users. I was one of them for many years. The problem is that for all the choice the thing that linux has never been able to offer is the choice not to tinker or the choice of a truly ready for the desktop distro.

I hope you are right. But I have seen all these same arguments for many years. I don't make the arguments that I do as someone who just tried ubuntu for the first time. I have been in and seen the community for many years.
"It's not a lie, if you really believe it"
--George Costanza

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mikeschoon
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:01 am
Location: Texas

Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by mikeschoon » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:39 pm

Check out this link and tell me whether you want to use Linux or not:

http://opensource.org/docs/osd

hellonorman
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by hellonorman » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:37 pm

Patrick wrote: My vpn for work works great under Linux. I'm happy as a pig in mud.
If only it was true.
For the longest time I’ve been using the CiscoVPN client for Linux to connect to my job’s vpn when working from home. It functions o.k. but there are some annoyances. Every time a new Linux kernel came down the pipe you had to rerun the installer script. It basically creates new kernel modules compiled with the newly installed Linux kernel. Also Cisco doesn’t seem to update the Linux version of their client very often and there are some issues on newer kernels. People in the community have provided patches that generally work. It’s just a hassle that Cisco doesn’t seem to care about it’s users who happen to run Linux. One other annoyance is that once the vpn is running you can’t even access your home directory through your file manager.
"It's not a lie, if you really believe it"
--George Costanza

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eddie
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Re: Sincere Question...What Does Linux Offer A Computer User?

Post by eddie » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:10 pm

I saw a lot of the same issues with mswindows as an admin when It upgraded. I had to go software vendors and beg for updates to all the client-server based software on the server as well as clients. No os is immune to that it and it is not just a linux problem.

Free pizza while it lasts
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