quick question from a newbie

q3c · Post by **q3c** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:59 pm

I am trying to move over almost fully to linux at work. I am wondering is there a program in which could replace outlook for me 100%? I use that for email, tasks, calendar, shared email, shared tasks, and shared calendar. The server which we are currently are using is MS server 2003 exchange, was placed before I became an admin...lol. I know that EVO does some what, but I have been so busy I haven't had time to check all of those.

~keith

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:55 pm

I have one word for you: Evolution

That is basically a drop-in replacement for Outlook.

It has a plugin, which is now open sourced thanks to Novell, to make it support Microsoft Exchange servers, should be included out of the box in pretty much every distro that includes Evolution.

Aaron X · Post by **Aaron X** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:00 am

I am forced to work with Outlook all day and with around 100 emails a day you can imagine my frustration.... but evolution just doesnt have the usability and the good looks of Outlook.... actually, its mainly about the looks

And trust me... I would dump outlook if I could... when is Mozilla going to come up with a good PIM package? Thunderbird is by far the best email client I have seen, even with a 1Gb+ IMAP account that I use at home... if only it had native Exchange support and a decent calander/task list built in.

Build it and they will come.

*spew at bad Kevin Costner line*

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:14 am

Aaron X wrote:I am forced to work with Outlook all day and with around 100 emails a day you can imagine my frustration.... but evolution just doesnt have the usability and the good looks of Outlook.... actually, its mainly about the looks

Well, if you're not willing to do a little on your own part, sure things are not gonna be as rosy as you would want them to be. I'd really like the girl I have a crush on to be interested in Linux, or at least "interested in geeks" like me, but heck things are far from that rosy.

Aaron X wrote:And trust me... I would dump outlook if I could...

You said it was just looks and usability, and what does it cost you to sit down on a Sunday and play around with Evolution, and maybe GNOME and other stuff in there? Perhaps you'd like that better, and not have to worry about getting a virus that uses a bad security exploit to install a trojan and crap on your system, and having a good and reliable operating system at the same time.

Aaron X wrote:when is Mozilla going to come up with a good PIM package? Thunderbird is by far the best email client I have seen, even with a 1Gb+ IMAP account that I use at home...

Don't hold your breath, Thunderbird don't even have sync capabilities, nor does it have an integrated calendar on the same level as Evolution does, it's gonna be a long long long time before Thunderbird is where Evolution is today, I think.

Aaron X wrote:if only it had native Exchange support and a decent calander/task list built in.

*Only* ? That is a hell of a lot of stuff you are asking for here, if you need it so badly, why don't you start writing some patches and implement features yourself?

Aaron X wrote:Build it and they will come.

If you could hire 50 programmers or so, to work full time on the stuff you need, we'd have what you need in a good, stable manner in about a year I think.

Sorry for being a little cranky, but I just get pissed off when Windows users moan about features missing, and they saying that other people should implement them while they sit on their lazy butt and eat pizza.

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:29 am

Tsuroerusu wrote:Sorry for being a little cranky, but I just get pissed off when Windows users moan about features missing, and they saying that other people should implement them while they sit on their lazy butt and eat pizza.

A lot of users, myself included, aren't developers. That's not our job.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:31 am

Wally Balljacker wrote:A lot of users, myself included, aren't developers. That's not our job.

Of course, I am aware of that, but I think it's like being a little ungrateful by saying that "What is out now is good, but I won't use it because you still don't have this and this and this" when it's volunteers you're talking to ....
If thing don't work the way you want it, write it yourself.

Wally Balljacker · Post by **Wally Balljacker** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:35 am

Tsuroerusu wrote:
Wally Balljacker wrote:A lot of users, myself included, aren't developers. That's not our job.
Of course, I am aware of that, but I think it's like being a little ungrateful by saying that "What is out now is good, but I won't use it because you still don't have this and this and this" when it's volunteers you're talking to ....
If thing don't work the way you want it, write it yourself.

Like I said, I don't write code. If users like Aaron X don't criticize these projects, how will they know what to improve? The Linux community has enough coders, it needs more people who know about usability, and design.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:43 am

Wally Balljacker wrote:Like I said, I don't write code. If users like Aaron X don't criticize these projects, how will they know what to improve? The Linux community has enough coders, it needs more people who know about usability, and design.

Of course, I guess it was just the way he was wording his post that ticked me off

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:54 am

It's fine that someone wants to make "suggestions" or to "criticize" applications. Sure, software only gets better when feedback is given to the developers. However, I don't see much good in making those suggestions here, in this forum.

If the intent is to really help a project improve, these suggestions should be made on the dev. boards for the project you're criticizing... this is where the developers for the software will have the best chance of seeing it and acting upon it. I doubt that developers go searching every Linux related forum, looking for comments about their projects.

I also feel that software developers, although can benefit from suggestions made by people (either using or not using the software in question), would probably be better motivated if they also had the moral support to go along with all of the "suggestions".

Actually use the software in question when you can, or tell people about it "I like so and so, it only seems to be missing X and Y", or make a donation to the project, or if the project has a forum visit from time to time and help other users make due until the improvements arrive. There's a lot more than code that people can do to help the development of a software project.

I don't know beans about programming in PHP or AJAX, but that doesn't stop me from contributing to the eyeOS project. I can write Help documents, I can use the software being developed and get back to the developers and tell them (not just some obscure forum somewhere) what improvements I'd like to see, and I tell others about eyeOS and visit the forums to try and answer other user questions.

There's lots us mere users can do to help a project other than just post on forums what we don't like about it. Unfortunately, MS-Windows users seem to overlook this aspect of the open source community. They're so used to just dealing with what they're given by some corporation that they forget that they can actually make a difference. They don't realize that they can actually stand up and take part in something. They're just used to being ignored by Microsoft, being forced to use something they don't like. So, it's up to us to educate them on this matter as well.

Stand up, take part and improve the software world around you. You have a voice that, when used properly, can actually change things.

That's just my opinion on the subject.

Gomer_X · Post by **Gomer_X** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:56 am

Wally Balljacker wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote:Sorry for being a little cranky, but I just get pissed off when Windows users moan about features missing, and they saying that other people should implement them while they sit on their lazy butt and eat pizza.
A lot of users, myself included, aren't developers. That's not our job.

A lot of developers have been complaining lately about how much Evolution sucks and how hard it's been to get bugs fixed or even addressed. There has been a thread back and forth between some of the Fedora developers. Apparently even being a developer doesn't help.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:28 am

Is that just because of how Evolution has been coded (ie: difficult to pin down the root of the problems)?

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:37 am

Judland wrote:Is that just because of how Evolution has been coded (ie: difficult to pin down the root of the problems)?

Just to be ignorant and do a "relative quote" from Zack Rusin (KDE developer): "One of the things that most of the applications that we have, have, is a clean codebase."

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

Aaron X · Post by **Aaron X** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:25 pm

OK, I was not aware that firstly there were two parties that I could be, a Windows user or a Linux user (for those that seem to be so eager to place me into a box I am a BSD user although my first installation of Linux was in 1994, installing Slackware onto a 486SX-33 with a 40Mb HDD that had Windows for my parents on the first 35Mb).

Now my comments were purely a comment that Evolution is not a straight drop in for Outlook. From my experience, you could not replace Outlook (and the majority of the Office package) with Evolution/OpenOffice in a large corporate environment such as I was refering to in my original post. I make these statements with the authority that my job is to handle communications of figures and data analysis for 227 telco retail outlets and their store managers, area managers and senior management. Challenges in this even include the use of voting buttons. The current offering from the OSS doesnt integrate enough for the masses, the Excel equivilent doesnt have nearly enough powerful tools (eg. vlookup) and when I want to paste a spreadsheet of data into an email, purely for the end user to view (eg. a Top 10 list) it simply doesnt do the job. I make that assumption based on if I can find it in 5 minutes, basic skilled users will never find it (ie. as I am fluent in using different interfaces between operating environments)

I am interesting in some conclusions made about the nature of my post. I would like to know what indicated that I am firstly a "Windows User" by nature. I must use windows at work as firstly as the company I work for has chosen Microsoft as their technology partner. I also have to use Excel as certain database interfaces I am required to use only have interfaces as Excel add-ins. However I add that if I was able to decide the procurement of software I would still choose Microsoft TODAY as for people whose role is not in IT, but rather people management, retailing and administration, in my opinion, the alternative is too difficult to use.

I am sorry to say that. I really wish that this wasnt the case. Gnome/KDE is suitable to replace Windows, right now. And if the same situation as above, and you could run Outlook and Office on Gnome, that would be my suggestion to any organisation. But the productivity suites available on the *IX platform today are not of a suitable standard.

If I had the time or skill I would do my best to fix them, lets be honest, Microsoft have the resources and have had the headstart on the OSS community. Word has been around since the early 90's, compare that to the time that OpenOffice has been around.

I also find interesting how I am not contributing in the correct forum. Do you know which other forums I post on?

So to set the record straight, my home desktop is currently an Ubuntu installation (well, it changes as I install whatever new release I usually get on coverdisks or read about, I typically install something new every 2 weeks to play with it, usually on a Saturday AND Sunday

)

I also have a FreeBSD box that I use as a mail server, http server and asterisk box (which I compiled from source).

So just because I dont choose to put every distro in my signature, or any at all you may be wise to assume nothing unless you have at least done the courtesy of enquiring first. As for sitting on my butt and eating pizza, whilst it is a favorite hobby of mine, I usually work a 10 hour day, a couple of which is so I can work on projects incremental to what I am paid to do, mostly revolving around moving a large portion of our reporting to a web based system (running apache and mysql) so we dont have to rely on Microsoft based products. That is MY inititive, not mandated by the company. What are you doing to inflict change in the real world?