FLOSS Weekly Ogg feed

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:37 pm

Jza wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote:Jesus christ, with guys like Leo Laporte still saying it's hard to install Linux, no wonder we only have two or three percent of the market!!
Well T if you are so worry about Leo´s knowledge of Linux why dont you leave him a voice mail. Or chat on IRC with him during his show, I know you are up at that time

I have actually tried leaving him a voicemail, I'll see if I can pull myself together and join IRC.

And it's not that I'm worried about him, it's just the people listening I'm worried about, because they will get the impression that Linux is hard to deal with and be subject to Microsoft's FUD. Leo can go ahead and be a Mac whore, or whatever he is, as he wants, I don't give a <bad word> about that, but I don't want normal people who are fully capable of using Linux to just think that it's hard to use for the next 5 years, especially since it's NOT hard to deal with, sure some things still needs a little bit of work here and there, but in terms of security and reliability Linux were there close to a decade ago.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:24 pm

You have to realize that Leo is aiming most of everything he does at the average or slightly advanced user. For these people, installing Windows alone is a big task - dual booting would be very difficult.

Until more mp3 players do ogg, and do it well, I don't really care about ogg. TBH, if a show is ogg-only it's unlikely I'll have time to listen since all of my podcast time is during my commute. Ogg may be better, but until it's a well supported standard I'll stick to mp3.

Oh, and congrats Chess! You got props from the ITT guys. They rarely do anything linux related so they must really dig your show. Sounds like you must be doing a great job!

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:40 pm

Snarkout wrote:You have to realize that Leo is aiming most of everything he does at the average or slightly advanced user. For these people, installing Windows alone is a big task - dual booting would be very difficult.

What was the last distro you tried to get to dual boot with Windows? SUSE does it automatically, it checks to see if WIndows is already installed, if it is, it'll dual boot without bothering the user at all.

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:48 pm

There are plenty of players that support ogg, for example if you have a pocketpc and vlc installed you have an ogg-compatible player. If you have a nokia 770 you are all set with ogg too. The vorbis wiki alone mentions near 50+ ogg portable players.

Post by **Patrick** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:22 pm

Jza wrote:There are plenty of players that support ogg, for example if you have a pocketpc and vlc installed you have an ogg-compatible player. If you have a nokia 770 you are all set with ogg too. The vorbis wiki alone mentions near 50+ ogg portable players.

Hear hear!! The old excuse that portable players don't support ogg is outdated. Granted the most popular player (Ipod) doesn't support ogg it should still be made available for anyone who wants it. I'd say our ogg downloads account for about 20% total. Not a majority but it's growing slowly.

chuck · Post by **chuck** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:30 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote:OK, to me, it's official, Leo has absolutely no clue <...>apperantly he still lives 2001 or Microsoft's FUD is working on him, and a lot of other Mac whores.

Well this is about all you had to say to describe Leo's knowledge of current tech.

If there weren't someone explaining things to him in small words, he wouldn't know anything. As it is, he only gets half his stories and terminology close to being correct. That's largely the reason that FLOSS is the last of his podcasts that I listen to, and the occasional TWiT if the right hosts are on there with<out> him.

schotty · Post by **schotty** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:44 pm

I think thats being a bit harsh. He is trying (successfully may I add) to create his own network, do several podcasts to start the thing going, and need to have the research in place for it all.

If you are doing a tech radio cast (KFI), knowing cameras, tvs, radios, _Windows_, _MacOS_, dvd players, hd-dvd player, and soforth would obviously rank high on his list. Why? Because the average Joe-Blow knows whyat each of them is. How many know linux, the penguin or even major brands? Few.

Short anecdote, I wear mostly FLOSS related tees or beer related. My coworkers recognize the beer ones (Leinenkugel, Miller, Budweiser, Busch), even after asking 10 times each, being present whilst others ask, still have no clue what the hell Red Hat is or does. A few know Firefox, fewer Thunderbird, fewer still OpenOffice (although growing faster than Firefox did, shall see how this one goes), and like a grand total of 4 users of Linux, and another 4 that know (comprehension that is, not just Red Hat == Linux vendor ... Linux .... ..... hat company .... linux is ball caps ).

This is what leo deals with x10000000, and with more less intelligent people (computerwise). I got engineers and CS majors that are dumb to linux. Again I must ask where his limited time goes into? What he needs is a volunteer to defer to for all his Linux questions. That would solve this issue right there. Quality answers and at worst more accurate and properly dated than what is currently being thrown about.

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:23 pm

I think Leo is just not as excited about Linux and open source and follows what is hot and reports about that. He does not find open source as interesting as me or most of the people on this forum. But 'ey at least he is trying. I have no problem with people that do not get involved in the community but if you do, I have that much more respect for you. I am a absolute believer in open source because of all the die hard contributors that seem like they would do anything for anyone. Leo just hasn't gotten involved enough to see such things, and I have no problem with that.

That aside, yes an OGG feed would be nice and I'm sure if enough people chime in he will put one up. I signed up but the password I got didn't work and his site seemed like it locked me out for some reason, I am trying to see if I can fix this and get my account back or I will sign up for another.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:56 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote:
Snarkout wrote:You have to realize that Leo is aiming most of everything he does at the average or slightly advanced user. For these people, installing Windows alone is a big task - dual booting would be very difficult.
What was the last distro you tried to get to dual boot with Windows? SUSE does it automatically, it checks to see if WIndows is already installed, if it is, it'll dual boot without bothering the user at all.

Why do I always feel like you don't read a damn thing I've posted and jut react? Re-read my post and then re-read your answer -if you don't see a disconnect there, something is wrong. I did not say I couldn't do it. I did not say that it was difficult. I said that people who have a hard time installing windows would have a much harder time installing a dual boot system.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:01 pm

Patrick wrote:
Jza wrote:There are plenty of players that support ogg, for example if you have a pocketpc and vlc installed you have an ogg-compatible player. If you have a nokia 770 you are all set with ogg too. The vorbis wiki alone mentions near 50+ ogg portable players.
Hear hear!! The old excuse that portable players don't support ogg is outdated. Granted the most popular player (Ipod) doesn't support ogg it should still be made available for anyone who wants it. I'd say our ogg downloads account for about 20% total. Not a majority but it's growing slowly.

OK, so I can go out and buy a new player just to listen to ogg. AFAIK most of the players that claim to play ogg do it poorly or have problems with many oggs. The problem for me is that nothing I own will play ogg files except my linux box. Some oggs play doublespeed even on that. Forget my mp3 capable stereo. Forget my boom box. Forget my car stereo. Forget my current mp3 player. FOr some, ogg may be a battle worth fighting. For me it isn't. Yet.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:13 pm

Snarkout wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote:
Snarkout wrote:You have to realize that Leo is aiming most of everything he does at the average or slightly advanced user. For these people, installing Windows alone is a big task - dual booting would be very difficult.
What was the last distro you tried to get to dual boot with Windows? SUSE does it automatically, it checks to see if WIndows is already installed, if it is, it'll dual boot without bothering the user at all.
Why do I always feel like you don't read a damn thing I've posted and jut react? Re-read my post and then re-read your answer -if you don't see a disconnect there, something is wrong. I did not say I couldn't do it. I did not say that it was difficult. I said that people who have a hard time installing windows would have a much harder time installing a dual boot system.

Well excuuuuuse me!

My mindset goes like this "If you can get WIndows fully running, you can install SUSE" (The reason I'm saying SUSE, is because it is the distro, who's installation I'm most familiar with and to my experience is the best at dual booting). Because what is involved in at Windows install? You gotta get the installer going, hunt down drivers, make sure to disconnect it so you don't get comprised in a few seconds etc. etc.

OK, let's say a user don't know how to burn the CDs so they go down and buy SUSE for 60 bucks, and follow the guide that's included, what is the problem? If you understand basic concepts of reading what it shows you on the screen, and if you bought SUSE you get 90 days of installation support over the phone, so there's a big help right there.

OK, if a user absolutely can't dual boot, don't suggest Linux to him, but at least do it to the people who can install WIndows, a lot of people can't tweak Windows to perform better, but A LOT of just dumb office people, certainly not all, but a remarkable amount can actually install Windows with too much effort, get them to try installing SLED 10, I highly doubt they're gonna have a lot of difficulty.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:40 pm

Maybe people in your part of the world are a lot smarter than they are here in America.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:46 pm

Snarkout wrote:Maybe people in your part of the world are a lot smarter than they are here in America.

I doubt it, and I am not suggesting you trying to get grandma to install Linux, unless she can install Windows, even just using a restore disk with a manual on the side, because it's essentially the same thing you do when you install SUSE and follow the manual you get when you buy it or you can download the manual from opensuse.org and print out the parts you need.

schotty · Post by **schotty** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:26 pm

Snarkout wrote: OK, so I can go out and buy a new player just to listen to ogg. AFAIK most of the players that claim to play ogg do it poorly or have problems with many oggs. The problem for me is that nothing I own will play ogg files except my linux box. Some oggs play doublespeed even on that. Forget my mp3 capable stereo. Forget my boom box. Forget my car stereo. Forget my current mp3 player. FOr some, ogg may be a battle worth fighting. For me it isn't. Yet.

That is my problem. I rip everything in mp3 highest quality.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:52 pm

The only issue I have with people, like Leo, is that many people do consider them an authority on things. When authoritative people pass out bad or incomplete information about Linux, it does us (as a community) more harm than good, I feel.

I'd rather Leo just say "I don't know enough about Linux to give you good advice, so I won't comment. However, here's where you can get good information it.... (plug favorite Linux site here)."