higher bit rate ogg file

[Wally Balljacker]

if you are going to up the quality of the ogg, will the same be done for mp3?

Most likely not.

I think decreasing the quality of the mp3 so its so rotten and unbearable to hear that they have no excuse but to use the free formats

I'm sure the people who have MP3 audio players won't mind...

[allix]

I'm sure the people who have MP3 audio players won't mind...

There is a wink that must have not worked on your browser .

[Linc]

I think your current bit rate is a major improvement over the 8-track tapes that you guys had back in the 70's. By the way, speaking of 8-track tapes, I picked up Linc's greatest hits at a garage sale the other day. I like the Rhinestone Cowboy remix that is on it. Linc has a set of pipes, that's for sure.

Dang, you've found me out!

[Wally Balljacker]

So that means Linc is actually like 65. I always knew it.

[harriseldon]

If you decide to do a higher bit rate ogg, please continue to do the current ogg file and add an extra feed. My portable media plays most oggs just fine, but choked on the ones created by Pat. I know I can re-encode to a lower bitrate, but I would prefer to just copy the audio file as is.

[deptrai]

If you decide to do a higher bit rate ogg, please continue to do the current ogg file and add an extra feed.

I couldn't agree more, but would add that there is little to be gained by producing a higher-bitrate vorbis encoding at all, and much to be lost if it replaces rather than supplements the current encoding.

Why little to be gained? Because most of the audio content, i.e. everyone who is not present at the site where the recording takes place but rather streams over internet or uses the PSTN, is already at a much lower audio quality than the current encoding for distribution. So, if Linc is calling in on his cell phone but Dann is recording the show for distribution, no matter what encoding is used Linc will never sound better than a cell phone call, which he already does. The same applies for virtually all VoIP connection methods, all of which typically stream using bitrates and codecs that are already lower fidelity than the current TLLTS vorbis (Dann, could you post the parameters with which you currently encode?). Why take a VoIP stream that was originally at 22050 hertz and up-sample it to 48k? Absolutely nothing is accomplished. So that leaves only locally-generated content (typically only Dann's mic, which I believe isn't terribly high-quality to begin with) which even stands to benefit at all by increasing the bitrate.

If I recall correctly, there was a suggestion mentioned on the show a few months ago by someone (I forget whom) that a new recording method be used wherein each site would make a local recording which would later be synced and mixed together offline to make the final recording for download, which would allow multiple high-fidelity tracks, but this was rejected due to excessive complexity and effort.

Why much to be lost? Bandwidth. Yes, I know that many of you may have high-speed connections, purchased on the all-you-can-eat-buffet plan, but most of the people in the world do not. In places such as Vietnam, from which I write, there is typically 0.5 second RTT latency to North America, which reduces TCP throughput. You are penalizing us for a fickle change which yields, at best, little or no advantage to sound-quality -- this isn't a symphony orchestral recording, and Dann's voice already sounds quite clear. And for anyone (either downloaders or uploading mirrors) who is paying by the MB, there is a very real increased cost to be paid.

It's a no-brainer: all con and no pro. So why change?

the problem with speex or flaac is that I don't know of any players that support them.

I know of none that do so out-of-the-box, but anything that runs Rockbox supports both, which includes many models from many manufaturers, including iPods. That said, for the same above-stated reasons that higher-bitrate ogg makes no sense, even considering using flac for TLLTS is absolutely beyond retarded. Speex might have merit, but personally I don't see it as a replacement the current low-bitrate ogg encoding for a variety of reasons, though it could be implemented as an additional feed if there was interest.

Furthermore, while I'm not familiar with the process that is currently used to prepare the feeds, it seems to me that additional feeds should increase neither effort nor bandwidth since, once the script that creates/updates them is set up, there is zero human effort to generate the content (i.e. just generate your highest-quality content+feed, then automatically generate the others from it via script); and because if the additional feeds are of lower bitrate (as speex presumably would be), and people aren't double-downloading from multiple feeds, the actually number of MB downloaded goes down, not up, as some downloaders switch to lower-bitrate feeds. Of course, I can understand busy people not wanting to work out the details of setting up new procedures, testing scripts, etc.

[Wally Balljacker]

I agree, the only way to truly get a high quality recording is to record each host locally and sync them up. IMO, the show reached its audio quality zenith back during the old days (circa 2005-06) when everyone was sitting in the same room and Dann would provide high-quality Ogg Vorbis files through BitTorrent.

For anyone that started listening to TLLTS within the past year or so, have a listen to my old high bitrate Ogg file from March 15th, 2006. All the hosts are local, and it was encoded at a generous 128kbps. I have about 22 shows that were recorded like this, it's really a shame that everyone is in different geographic locations now.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/40ee89/ ... -15-06_ogg

[allix]

deptrai , you made some great points that us rich and spoilt westerners forget. Its also very interesting to know that the world listens to the show.
I wonder if Dann has any geographical download stats, I would love to know what far and away village is digging tllts.

[Linc]

deptrai , you made some great points that us rich and spoilt westerners forget. Its also very interesting to know that the world listens to the show.
I wonder if Dann has any geographical download stats, I would love to know what far and away village is digging tllts.

Believe it or not, Linc actually runs a lot of the behind the scenes stuffs...
From last month: (of course, this is only the main server and doesn't count any of our mirrors)

Top 30 of 54 Total Countries
# Hits Files KBytes Country
1 154039 82.64% 138561 85.57% 463003596 85.25% Unresolved/Unknown
2 15664 8.40% 14418 8.90% 33324417 6.14% US Commercial
3 10868 5.83% 9891 6.11% 27510049 5.07% Network
4 1330 0.71% 1321 0.82% 831405 0.15% Canada
5 888 0.48% 851 0.53% 4551134 0.84% United Kingdom
6 736 0.39% 712 0.44% 2288493 0.42% Australia
7 551 0.30% 519 0.32% 2567990 0.47% Netherlands
8 367 0.20% 333 0.21% 635590 0.12% Denmark
9 340 0.18% 310 0.19% 1777134 0.33% Sweden
10 331 0.18% 257 0.16% 684818 0.13% US Educational
11 213 0.11% 209 0.13% 325011 0.06% Singapore
12 158 0.08% 107 0.07% 637738 0.12% Finland
13 104 0.06% 101 0.06% 701371 0.13% Non-Profit Organization
14 101 0.05% 83 0.05% 358227 0.07% Czech Republic
15 80 0.04% 47 0.03% 68275 0.01% US Military
16 78 0.04% 57 0.04% 309437 0.06% US Government
17 78 0.04% 34 0.02% 769526 0.14% Belgium
18 44 0.02% 35 0.02% 425891 0.08% United States
19 43 0.02% 41 0.03% 93874 0.02% Germany
20 40 0.02% 34 0.02% 348967 0.06% South Africa
21 37 0.02% 31 0.02% 505 0.00% Switzerland
22 32 0.02% 27 0.02% 101387 0.02% Italy
23 22 0.01% 15 0.01% 92918 0.02% Japan
24 21 0.01% 16 0.01% 195 0.00% Colombia
25 20 0.01% 10 0.01% 145 0.00% Poland
26 20 0.01% 20 0.01% 90214 0.02% Portugal
27 19 0.01% 17 0.01% 124103 0.02% Old style Arpanet (arpa)
28 17 0.01% 16 0.01% 209050 0.04% Israel
29 15 0.01% 14 0.01% 148527 0.03% Austria
30 14 0.01% 14 0.01% 25466 0.00% Norway

[allix]

27 19 0.01% 17 0.01% 124103 0.02% Old style Arpanet (arpa)

lol, that is interesting Linc , thanks

[rowinggolfer]

UP THE MP3 QUALITY!

before I am accused of being a freedom hater, my perspective is that potential converts to linux are going to get the mp3 version what's an *.ogg?
If it sounds crap (and podcast quality is better than it used to be) - then there is a possibility that potential convert will think - "if that's the best linux can do - forget it".

my 2ps worth.

[thenixedreport]

Here is a suggestion..... offer a subscription type of package that could be used to help support the show in exchange for access to higher bit-rate audio. Such a thing could be used to cover bandwidth and storage costs as well as funding other projects.

[allix]

Here is a suggestion..... offer a subscription type of package that could be used to help support the show in exchange for access to higher bit-rate audio. Such a thing could be used to cover bandwidth and storage costs as well as funding other projects.

That's not a bad idea or even anyone who gives a sponsor over a certain amount of money gets a annual subscription.


This is coming from a European socialist, its an oxymoron .

[Tsuroerusu]

Here is a suggestion..... offer a subscription type of package that could be used to help support the show in exchange for access to higher bit-rate audio. Such a thing could be used to cover bandwidth and storage costs as well as funding other projects.

Didn't Dann already pretty much say that the increased size and bandwidth wouldn't be much of an issue for them directly?

[thenixedreport]

Here is a suggestion..... offer a subscription type of package that could be used to help support the show in exchange for access to higher bit-rate audio. Such a thing could be used to cover bandwidth and storage costs as well as funding other projects.

Didn't Dann already pretty much say that the increased size and bandwidth wouldn't be much of an issue for them directly?

I think he did. If that's the case, then such a thing could still be used to help fund other projects out there (like say... Lindependence).