Oracle just declared war on Red Hat

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greggh
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Oracle just declared war on Red Hat

Post by greggh » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:33 am

Oracle just announced that it will offer full support to Red Hat customers at half the price. Red Hat recently bought JBoss and it looks like Ellison is super pissed that Red Hat is trying to compete with them. Red Hat shares are down almost 30% on the news, that's almost $1 billion in market cap lost today.

url Red Hat shares rocked
Oracle CEO Larry Ellison announced the new program at his company's OpenWorld convention here, which has drawn a record 42,000 attendees.

As of Wednesday, Oracle will offer full support to Red Hat customers, at a price that Ellison claimed is roughly 50% lower. He said the inability of Red Hat and other Linux vendors to offer the kind of support needed by large businesses was holding back the progress of the open source operating system. "The lack of enterprise quality support has slowed the adoption of Linux," Ellison said. "This isn't about Red Hat, this is about increasing the adoption of Linux."

Ellison's announcement was something of a surprise. There has been speculation for months that Oracle would compete head to head with Red Hat by offering its own version of Linux. But that would have opened the company to charges that it was splintering Linux for its own selfish ends. Competing with Red Hat by offering support, though, is a much cleaner solution.

"I don't think this will kill Red Hat," Ellison said in response to a question from the audience. "This is capitalism. We are competing," he said.

Oracle, he said, will do a better job fixing bugs than Red Hat, indemnify customers against potential intellectual property issues, and offer better customer support for less money.

A spokesman for Red Hat could not be reached for comment.

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snarkout
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Post by snarkout » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:24 am

I can't imagine this turning out well for oracle.
Shared pain is lessened, shared joy is increased; thus do we refute entropy.
--Spider Robinson

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greggh
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Post by greggh » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:31 am

Red Hat just fired back with this page on their site...

http://www.redhat.com/promo/unfakeable/

From that page...



Red Hat & Oracle Partnership

Q: Does Oracle's recent announcement change Red Hat's partnership with Oracle?

A: No. Red Hat has had a productive 7-year relationship with Oracle. Red Hat will continue to work closely with Oracle to optimize Red Hat Enterprise Linux and JBoss middleware subscriptions for Oracle products, and to support joint customers.



-- and then just to prove what a great partnership Red Hat and Oracle will continue to have, Red Hat calls Oracle liars 4 times...



Hardware Compatibility

Q: Oracle says their Linux support includes the same hardware compatibility and certifications as Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Is this true?

A: No. Oracle has stated they will make changes to the code independently of Red Hat. These changes will not be tested during Red Hat's hardware testing and certification process, and may cause unexpected behavior. Hence Red Hat hardware certifications are invalidated.



Software Compatibility

Q: Oracle says their Linux support includes the same software compatibility and ISV certifications of Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Is this true?

A: No. Oracle has stated they will make changes to the code independently of Red Hat. These changes will not be tested during Red Hat's software testing and certification process, and may cause unexpected behavior. Hence Red Hat software certifications are invalidated.



Updates

Q: Oracle says they will provide the same updates as Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Can they do this?

A: There are multiple requirements to building binary compatible software. One piece is the source code; another is the build and test environment. While Oracle may be able to take the source code at some point after a Red Hat update release, obviously their build and test environment will inherently be different than that for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. For similar reasons, there is no guarantee that the source code for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux update will work correctly when integrated into Oracle's modified Linux code base.



Security

Q: Can Oracle produce timely security updates to Red Hat Enterprise Linux as they stated?

A: No. There will be a delay between the time a Red Hat Enterprise Linux update is issued, and the time the source code makes its way to Oracle. And there is no guarantee that the source code for the Red Hat Enterprise Linux update will work correctly when integrated into Oracle's Linux code base; this integration and test may take additional time. In the case where the update corrects critical security flaws, Oracle customers may be exposed to additional risk.

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Patrick
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Post by Patrick » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:06 am

Damn, with friends like that who the hell needs enemies? I guess that whole JBoss deal really pissed Larry off. You don't won't to piss Larry off. My company is switching their time reporting and project management system to a product that's running on Red Hat servers with Oracle on the backend. This setup is very common. The ball is in Red Hat's court.
Ego contemno licentia

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greggh
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Post by greggh » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:32 am

Red Hat charges $3000 for a license and it costs $5000 for an Oracle database license. Oracle will now bundle in their own supported version of Red Hat with a database license for just an an additional $1000.

Red Hat - $3000 + Oracle database - $5000 = $8000

or get it all from Oracle for just $6000 (save $2000). This is going to hurt Red Hat big time.

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Post by snarkout » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:53 am

The problem is that oracle have no idea what it takes to run a linux release. They also, apparently, are not planning on releasing thier source code. I'm not usually of the belief that there are many stones that can take down today's Goliaths, but I really thing Oracle may have bitten off more than they can chew.

Other than that, I'm not super happy with readhat either.
Shared pain is lessened, shared joy is increased; thus do we refute entropy.
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Post by Jza » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:57 am

Well I agree with Ellison, I think that raising the level in Linux support market is great.

For a lot of companies that complained about the lack of support from Linux companies, having more parties fighting for support is just a good thing for the costumers.
Alexandro COLORADO

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greggh
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Post by greggh » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:02 pm

Jza wrote:Well I agree with Ellison, I think that raising the level in Linux support market is great.

For a lot of companies that complained about the lack of support from Linux companies, having more parties fighting for support is just a good thing for the costumers.
Don't be fooled by Larry's words. This is about one thing... revenge for Red Hat buying JBoss and competing with them. I bet Larry loved saying... "I don't think this will kill Red Hat," when he made the announcement, when he meant just the opposite.

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it won't work

Post by jsusanka » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:22 pm

I tend to think that Larry is pissed at redhat for something other than buying jboss - I don't see oracle and jboss really competing or being the same product.

I always thought jboss was more middleware like coldfusion, websphere, zope-python, than it was a database backend.
My work has always used oracle as a backend database and used whatever connectors that came with the middleware. so I don't see what the problem is.

I wish guys like Larry, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs would just get out of the business and retire. Their egos get in their way all the time. And personally am getting tired of these little rich boy rants because they didn't get their way. The only people that get hurt are the customers. I would put postgres up against oracle any day. Oracle doesn't really impress me as a product but that is just me. Me personally don't rate people because they have money or don't and not afraid of pissing anybody off. I am sticking with redhat on this one. They know their os the best and would trust their support a lot more than oracle's support. But my personal preference would be suse enterprise but again that is just me.

Sorry for going on I guess I am done now.

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Post by greggh » Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:27 pm


schotty
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Post by schotty » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:48 pm

From what I have been hearing, oracle isnt that great of a db and with work postgresql, not to mention buggy and poorly patched. I see that most of the distros are going to see this and start really pimping anything not Oracle. I think from what corporate newsletters I have gotten to sofar, that the commercial linux distro community is moreso standing behind Red Hat and giving Oracle the finger.

We shall see if this story is worth the electrons being used to save the text on the hard drives everywhere.

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Post by Gomer_X » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:41 am

schotty wrote:From what I have been hearing, oracle isnt that great of a db and with work postgresql, not to mention buggy and poorly patched.
When does technical superiority equal commercial success? Microsoft Office isn't the best, but it is still the standard. Lotus Notes is hugely popular, but technically it's horrible.

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Post by ubergeekinc » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:02 pm

greggh wrote:Red Hat charges $3000 for a license and it costs $5000 for an Oracle database license. Oracle will now bundle in their own supported version of Red Hat with a database license for just an an additional $1000.

Red Hat - $3000 + Oracle database - $5000 = $8000

or get it all from Oracle for just $6000 (save $2000). This is going to hurt Red Hat big time.
The OS costs are incidental against the cost of an enterprise RDBMS solution. Our last cheque to Oracle was for 160k.

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Re: it won't work

Post by ubergeekinc » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:13 pm

jsusanka wrote:I tend to think that Larry is pissed at redhat for something other than buying jboss - I don't see oracle and jboss really competing or being the same product.

I always thought jboss was more middleware like coldfusion, websphere, zope-python, than it was a database backend.
Oracle is the company, JBoss (was a company but) is a collection of projects, the most popular is the Application Server. Oracle has an Application Server in iAS which I think has been renamed to OAS.[/i]

The thing is, iAS sucks. Period. I've used it - I've installed it (at least a 100 times) - I've lead teams of developers coding against it - it just sucks. Oracle was eyeing JBoss for a variety of speculative reasons - some figure it was to replace the despised iAS others say to squash a competitor that was free and much better than its product (and quickly gaining market share against the big AS engines out there). I think it was a combination of both - probably using the technology in some niche area.

In a year who will care. Don't you remember Larry coming out to say that they were developing their own OS so the RDBMS does not have to have that extra layer between itself and the hardware? (this must be nearing 10 years ago now) I've never seen anything. There are contracts between RH and Oracle - your investments in technology will be safe for a few years yet.

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