Groklaw article "Novell Sells Out":
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor ... 2175508403
Novell and Microsoft to be partners?
Moderators: snarkout, Patrick, dann
I'm not going to get up in arms about this - I guess what's really going on will shake out soon enough - but you'd think of all people that Novell would know that getting into bed with M$ is never a good idea.
Shared pain is lessened, shared joy is increased; thus do we refute entropy.
--Spider Robinson
--Spider Robinson
One more take, this time from Bruce Perens:
http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945
(interesting comments, too).
http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945
(interesting comments, too).
Chess Griffin
Interesting read from Sun Microsystem's Simon Phipps:
http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/the_morning_after
http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/the_morning_after
Ego contemno licentia
While it's still too early in the game to see where this is all going to go, it does bring to circle back around to what we talked about on the show this week. Is opening the door to business practices that do not promote the 4 freedoms going to ultimately destroy the GNU + Linux community that we know and love?
We are on a slippery slope here.
We are on a slippery slope here.
I have often said that Microsoft has far better business sense than code. They may make a weak OS, but they have some brutal and sharp business minds with them. I still don't quite understand the logic behind this, unless it's Novell's way of just pocketing a bit of cash and gaining a scare tactic against Red Hat, for whom I've renewed fondness.
Can't imagine this being good for Novell in the end, but maybe they have something up their sleeve.
Can't imagine this being good for Novell in the end, but maybe they have something up their sleeve.
Vim is beautiful
Red Hat's website about this deal:
"Q: What do these announcements mean for Red Hat?
A: It means Linux has won. The world's largest software companies are saying what customers have known for years: Open source innovation delivers better software and better value.
Q: Did Red Hat consider a similar patent deal with Microsoft?
A: An innovation tax is unthinkable. Free and open source software provide the necessary environment for true innovation. Innovation without fear or threat. Activities that isolate communities or limit upstream adoption will inevitably stifle innovation.
We believe so strongly in this that we made a critical promise to our customers five years ago:
"To the extent any party exercises a Patent Right with respect to Open Source/Free Software which reads on any claim of any patent held by Red Hat, Red Hat agrees to refrain from enforcing the infringed patent against such party for such exercise ('Our Promise')."
Anything less would not be genuine. 200,000+ customers trust our Promise. 80+% of commercial Linux customers choose us every day. That's leadership--which respects the needs of the community and delivers the promise of open source to our customers."
http://www.redhat.com/promo/believe/
"Q: What do these announcements mean for Red Hat?
A: It means Linux has won. The world's largest software companies are saying what customers have known for years: Open source innovation delivers better software and better value.
Q: Did Red Hat consider a similar patent deal with Microsoft?
A: An innovation tax is unthinkable. Free and open source software provide the necessary environment for true innovation. Innovation without fear or threat. Activities that isolate communities or limit upstream adoption will inevitably stifle innovation.
We believe so strongly in this that we made a critical promise to our customers five years ago:
"To the extent any party exercises a Patent Right with respect to Open Source/Free Software which reads on any claim of any patent held by Red Hat, Red Hat agrees to refrain from enforcing the infringed patent against such party for such exercise ('Our Promise')."
Anything less would not be genuine. 200,000+ customers trust our Promise. 80+% of commercial Linux customers choose us every day. That's leadership--which respects the needs of the community and delivers the promise of open source to our customers."
http://www.redhat.com/promo/believe/
Chess Griffin
This guy is calling for a boycot of Novell and says they are violating two parts of the GPL v2 license that specifically refer to patents...
http://www.openaddict.com/news.php?item.227.3
http://www.openaddict.com/news.php?item.227.3
From the GPL v2 preamble:
Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software patents. We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all.
If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
I Totally agree with You Judland !
I'm SO disappointed in Novell right now!
SUSE is "out a' here" - no way I can justify supporting this Company anymore ! - It seems They are turning LINUX into "Novell OS" - I wish them luck, They are going to need it !
Luckily I have completely switched to Mandriva (based on Your (Judland) comments on the distro), and i must say I'm pretty impressed !
I'm SO disappointed in Novell right now!
SUSE is "out a' here" - no way I can justify supporting this Company anymore ! - It seems They are turning LINUX into "Novell OS" - I wish them luck, They are going to need it !
Luckily I have completely switched to Mandriva (based on Your (Judland) comments on the distro), and i must say I'm pretty impressed !
IT is No exact science
strange times
Okay here it goes - I have thought this mess out for a couple days and have to get this out.
First of all, my company is pretty big and I found it strange when they announced late last week that we are going to go to vista on the desktop by Q1 2008. This was unprecedented and never happened before. We wouldn't announce this stuff until at least the product was out for six months. I think I know why now.
What this announcement does is justify to the executives that linux is a definite solution on the desktop and I think microsoft is covering their backsides because vista is going to ship November 30th. And I guarantee that we will see companies lift the middle finger to microsoft when they come calling with the BSA and forced upgrades. People are going to turn to linux from the advise of folks like us and others. What I think is happening here is when vista fails microsoft wants to make sure they have a piece of the pie with this agreement/pact/announcement whatever you want to call it. And if companies don't chose SuSE linux then microsoft my come with their big bad lawyers and force people to chose suse linux because of course they get a piece of that pie. to me this speaks volumes about the confidence that microsoft has in how well vista is going to do.
now on a personal note - I chose suse linux for my amd64 machine because at the time I thought it was the best 64 bit distribution around. so I bought their product and put my money towards. was it smart? I don't know that is subjective. What it comes down to me personally is data. It is all about MY data and how I see fit storing it. I trusted and I guess I still do trust suse linux for storing my data. But with that said I have been trying mandriva for a few weeks on my wife's machine and I have been impressed. Both speedwise and aiglx wise. I was going to try it on my amd 64 box and I think this just gave the lift to do it.
I still trust suse and I feel they have done most things correctly - i.e realeasing yast, apparmor, etc and I liked iscsi that came with suse 10.1 it works pretty darn good and is better than nfs in my book.
In the long run I really don't see this deal being a big one. Sun made a similiar deal and nothing has really come it from except a resolution in a court case that microsoft was going to lose. Which brings me to another point.
Novell had microsoft by the balls - that is the part I don't understand is why bother making nice with a company that has done nothing for the industry but make it a mess. I think microsoft has their back against the wall and the only thing they know how to do is deal their way out of the jams they get into. Ballmer seems good at that.
I think they are a hurting company that I think has finally met their match with open source. So they are dealing with the only way they know how.
I guess I have to side with the feeling on groklaw - but time will see if that is correct. I just hope we don't see lawsuits against everyone that isn't suse and I hope the SCO doesn't all of the sudden has a turnaround for the worse.
So in the end I feel my data is not as secure with novell as it use to be so I will be migrating and testing other distributions for now. They will have to be free until the end of next year because I gave my budgeted money to novell. If I only knew then what I know now. I just hope I am wrong and that I can have the choice of going back to Novell if they are still around. I just hope this was worth it to Novell because they are going to get a LOT of bad press - especially if microsoft starts sueing when people throw their crap os out and not chose suse.
First of all, my company is pretty big and I found it strange when they announced late last week that we are going to go to vista on the desktop by Q1 2008. This was unprecedented and never happened before. We wouldn't announce this stuff until at least the product was out for six months. I think I know why now.
What this announcement does is justify to the executives that linux is a definite solution on the desktop and I think microsoft is covering their backsides because vista is going to ship November 30th. And I guarantee that we will see companies lift the middle finger to microsoft when they come calling with the BSA and forced upgrades. People are going to turn to linux from the advise of folks like us and others. What I think is happening here is when vista fails microsoft wants to make sure they have a piece of the pie with this agreement/pact/announcement whatever you want to call it. And if companies don't chose SuSE linux then microsoft my come with their big bad lawyers and force people to chose suse linux because of course they get a piece of that pie. to me this speaks volumes about the confidence that microsoft has in how well vista is going to do.
now on a personal note - I chose suse linux for my amd64 machine because at the time I thought it was the best 64 bit distribution around. so I bought their product and put my money towards. was it smart? I don't know that is subjective. What it comes down to me personally is data. It is all about MY data and how I see fit storing it. I trusted and I guess I still do trust suse linux for storing my data. But with that said I have been trying mandriva for a few weeks on my wife's machine and I have been impressed. Both speedwise and aiglx wise. I was going to try it on my amd 64 box and I think this just gave the lift to do it.
I still trust suse and I feel they have done most things correctly - i.e realeasing yast, apparmor, etc and I liked iscsi that came with suse 10.1 it works pretty darn good and is better than nfs in my book.
In the long run I really don't see this deal being a big one. Sun made a similiar deal and nothing has really come it from except a resolution in a court case that microsoft was going to lose. Which brings me to another point.
Novell had microsoft by the balls - that is the part I don't understand is why bother making nice with a company that has done nothing for the industry but make it a mess. I think microsoft has their back against the wall and the only thing they know how to do is deal their way out of the jams they get into. Ballmer seems good at that.
I think they are a hurting company that I think has finally met their match with open source. So they are dealing with the only way they know how.
I guess I have to side with the feeling on groklaw - but time will see if that is correct. I just hope we don't see lawsuits against everyone that isn't suse and I hope the SCO doesn't all of the sudden has a turnaround for the worse.
So in the end I feel my data is not as secure with novell as it use to be so I will be migrating and testing other distributions for now. They will have to be free until the end of next year because I gave my budgeted money to novell. If I only knew then what I know now. I just hope I am wrong and that I can have the choice of going back to Novell if they are still around. I just hope this was worth it to Novell because they are going to get a LOT of bad press - especially if microsoft starts sueing when people throw their crap os out and not chose suse.
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"Wow wow wow! Why all the hostility, what did a ninja ever do to you? ... Oh right!" - The Ninja @ http://www.askaninja.comIceMan wrote:I Totally agree with You Judland !
I'm SO disappointed in Novell right now!
SUSE is "out a' here" - no way I can justify supporting this Company anymore ! - It seems They are turning LINUX into "Novell OS" - I wish them luck, They are going to need it !
Luckily I have completely switched to Mandriva (based on Your (Judland) comments on the distro), and i must say I'm pretty impressed !
(http://www.askaninja.com/tags/question-16)
Personally I am not gonna stop using SUSE over this, and I am not gonna stop contributing to SUSE in the ways I already do though bug reporting, writing stuff in the wiki, etc. etc.
Why? Because if I go help Red Hat say GNOME better, Novell benefits too. If I help GNOME or KDE directly, Novell benefits. It really does not matter in which basket you lay your eggs, because in the end, everybody gets souffle for dinner.
I too am very disappointed IN NOVELL, it's like they trying to be a Linux company using proprietary techniques and approaches. I seriously doubt SUSE, if they had not been bought by Novell, would ever have done something like this.
If I understand this deal correctly, it smells like BIG HUNKING FAT GPL violation!jsusanka wrote:Okay here it goes - I have thought this mess out for a couple days and have to get this out.
First of all, my company is pretty big and I found it strange when they announced late last week that we are going to go to vista on the desktop by Q1 2008. This was unprecedented and never happened before. We wouldn't announce this stuff until at least the product was out for six months. I think I know why now.
What this announcement does is justify to the executives that linux is a definite solution on the desktop and I think microsoft is covering their backsides because vista is going to ship November 30th. And I guarantee that we will see companies lift the middle finger to microsoft when they come calling with the BSA and forced upgrades. People are going to turn to linux from the advise of folks like us and others. What I think is happening here is when vista fails microsoft wants to make sure they have a piece of the pie with this agreement/pact/announcement whatever you want to call it. And if companies don't chose SuSE linux then microsoft my come with their big bad lawyers and force people to chose suse linux because of course they get a piece of that pie. to me this speaks volumes about the confidence that microsoft has in how well vista is going to do.
now on a personal note - I chose suse linux for my amd64 machine because at the time I thought it was the best 64 bit distribution around. so I bought their product and put my money towards. was it smart? I don't know that is subjective. What it comes down to me personally is data. It is all about MY data and how I see fit storing it. I trusted and I guess I still do trust suse linux for storing my data. But with that said I have been trying mandriva for a few weeks on my wife's machine and I have been impressed. Both speedwise and aiglx wise. I was going to try it on my amd 64 box and I think this just gave the lift to do it.
I still trust suse and I feel they have done most things correctly - i.e realeasing yast, apparmor, etc and I liked iscsi that came with suse 10.1 it works pretty darn good and is better than nfs in my book.
In the long run I really don't see this deal being a big one. Sun made a similiar deal and nothing has really come it from except a resolution in a court case that microsoft was going to lose. Which brings me to another point.
Novell had microsoft by the balls - that is the part I don't understand is why bother making nice with a company that has done nothing for the industry but make it a mess. I think microsoft has their back against the wall and the only thing they know how to do is deal their way out of the jams they get into. Ballmer seems good at that.
I think they are a hurting company that I think has finally met their match with open source. So they are dealing with the only way they know how.
I guess I have to side with the feeling on groklaw - but time will see if that is correct. I just hope we don't see lawsuits against everyone that isn't suse and I hope the SCO doesn't all of the sudden has a turnaround for the worse.
So in the end I feel my data is not as secure with novell as it use to be so I will be migrating and testing other distributions for now. They will have to be free until the end of next year because I gave my budgeted money to novell. If I only knew then what I know now. I just hope I am wrong and that I can have the choice of going back to Novell if they are still around. I just hope this was worth it to Novell because they are going to get a LOT of bad press - especially if microsoft starts sueing when people throw their crap os out and not chose suse.
I quote section 7 of the GPL:
7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
If any portion of this section is held invalid or unenforceable under any particular circumstance, the balance of the section is intended to apply and the section as a whole is intended to apply in other circumstances.
It is not the purpose of this section to induce you to infringe any patents or other property right claims or to contest validity of any such claims; this section has the sole purpose of protecting the integrity of the free software distribution system, which is implemented by public license practices. Many people have made generous contributions to the wide range of software distributed through that system in reliance on consistent application of that system; it is up to the author/donor to decide if he or she is willing to distribute software through any other system and a licensee cannot impose that choice.
This section is intended to make thoroughly clear what is believed to be a consequence of the rest of this License.
"Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love. This is the eternal rule."
- Siddhattha Gotama (Buddha), founder of Buddhism.
This can only be bad. How many other companies were engulfed within Microsoft?? How many times have MS smiled in peoples' faces waiting the stab the killing blow in their back?? Where are the leading Mono devs employed??
This is trouble and nothing but, I am quite shocked with Novell.
This is trouble and nothing but, I am quite shocked with Novell.
"There's a fine line between not listening and not caring, I like to think I walk that line everyday of my life."
Church.
Church.