Episode 1 of the_source "The Filesystem Menace" re

anewcomb · Post by **anewcomb** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:03 pm

Check it out!

Merry Christmas from Aaron and Brian! Pirates??? Aaron has a new phone, Brian has a new car, an interview with Matt Ahrens and Mark Maybee from Sun about the revolutionary ZFS filesystem, Cinelerra tutorial #2, we still need your help!

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:22 pm

YEAH ZFS!!

Yo Aaron, would you mind trying to get Sun to port that to Linux? And while you're at it, you might as well GPL Solaris!

anewcomb · Post by **anewcomb** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:38 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote:YEAH ZFS!!

Yo Aaron, would you mind trying to get Sun to port that to Linux? And while you're at it, you might as well GPL Solaris!

We mention it in the show, but here is a direct link.

http://opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/porting/

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:02 pm

anewcomb wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote:YEAH ZFS!!

Yo Aaron, would you mind trying to get Sun to port that to Linux? And while you're at it, you might as well GPL Solaris!
We mention it in the show, but here is a direct link.

http://opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/porting/

I see, hmmmm, interesting. I personally still hope for a 100% native, as in "in the kernel on the same level as EXT3", port of ZFS. During the announcement of Java being GPLed, Jonathan Schwartz and Rich Green hinted at possibly GPLing Solaris, which would be just so cool in my opinion.

Some people, and IBM is one of them, what do we need another free operating system for, we already have plenty, right? Well, I think the more the merrier, Linux has very great hardware support, FreeBSD has a really really REALLY solid networking stack along with various BSD features such as securelevel, and Solaris has stuff like DTrace, ZFS etc.

allix · Post by **allix** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:55 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote: I see, hmmmm, interesting. I personally still hope for a 100% native, as in "in the kernel on the same level as EXT3", port of ZFS. During the announcement of Java being GPLed, Jonathan Schwartz and Rich Green hinted at possibly GPLing Solaris, which would be just so cool in my opinion.

As mentioned in the show, the FreeBSD port is doing pretty well, hopefully it gets into FreeBSD 7. ( of course if you are running CURRENT, there is a partial port)

Tsuroerusu wrote: Some people, and IBM is one of them, what do we need another free operating system for, we already have plenty, right? Well, I think the more the merrier, Linux has very great hardware support, FreeBSD has a really really REALLY solid networking stack along with various BSD features such as securelevel, and Solaris has stuff like DTrace, ZFS etc.

I agree more operating systems the more fun we can get

I am confused with IBM's position, there contribute to open source quite a bit and they don;t want another operating system,?

anewcomb · Post by **anewcomb** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:38 pm

Allix,

Lugradio forum seems to be having problems. So I will respond to your post here instead. I just wanted to let you know that we use dvgrab to pull our media from our cameras. It works great whether you are streaming directly to a PC or from tape. Then we just load our media into cinelerra and start the editing fun.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:55 pm

allix wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote: I see, hmmmm, interesting. I personally still hope for a 100% native, as in "in the kernel on the same level as EXT3", port of ZFS. During the announcement of Java being GPLed, Jonathan Schwartz and Rich Green hinted at possibly GPLing Solaris, which would be just so cool in my opinion.
As mentioned in the show, the FreeBSD port is doing pretty well, hopefully it gets into FreeBSD 7. ( of course if you are running CURRENT, there is a partial port)

The development cycle for FreeBSD 7 will start next summer, so hopefully they can get the ZFS support working before then so it can get in there, however I will probably hold off for at least 1½ years after it's marked stable (perfectly usable) in FreeBSD, because the file system is just so critical to me, I'd hate to loose 300 GBs of data because of bugs in the file system.
The folks over at DragonFly-BSD are also working on incorporating ZFS.

allix wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote: Some people, and IBM is one of them, what do we need another free operating system for, we already have plenty, right? Well, I think the more the merrier, Linux has very great hardware support, FreeBSD has a really really REALLY solid networking stack along with various BSD features such as securelevel, and Solaris has stuff like DTrace, ZFS etc.
I agree more operating systems the more fun we can get
I am confused with IBM's position, there contribute to open source quite a bit and they don;t want another operating system,?

See this: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/ ... 455,00.htm

One open-source operating system is plenty, though, so there would be no point to making AIX open-source, IBM's Handy said. "There's room for a proprietary one and an open one. Once one is open, you don't need any more," he said.

I personally think that argument is absolutely bollocks, to use a good old LugRadio term here.
The more the merrier! Heck, if DTrace and ZFS some day gets into Linux then Sun open sourcing Solaris has suddenly helped advance Linux, and maybe some hardware support from Linux could go into Solaris, especially when we talk x86.

allix · Post by **allix** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:38 am

anewcomb wrote:Allix,

Lugradio forum seems to be having problems. So I will respond to your post here instead. I just wanted to let you know that we use dvgrab to pull our media from our cameras. It works great whether you are streaming directly to a PC or from tape. Then we just load our media into cinelerra and start the editing fun.

i give that a shot next time , thanks

allix · Post by **allix** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:02 am

Tsuroerusu wrote:[
The development cycle for FreeBSD 7 will start next summer, so hopefully they can get the ZFS support working before then so it can get in there, however I will probably hold off for at least 1½ years after it's marked stable (perfectly usable) in FreeBSD, because the file system is just so critical to me, I'd hate to loose 300 GBs of data because of bugs in the file system.
The folks over at DragonFly-BSD are also working on incorporating ZFS.

Thats right, FreeBSD , infact all the BSD's release less often but at a stable condition, than the linux motto "Release early" and hope it works

I will wait for a quite a few releases before i commit myself to ZFS.
The DragonFly-BSD project looks interesting, but installing it on a unicore proc seems silly, its a distributed cluster based project if i am not mistaken.

Tsuroerusu wrote: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/ ... 455,00.htm

One open-source operating system is plenty, though, so there would be no point to making AIX open-source, IBM's Handy said. "There's room for a proprietary one and an open one. Once one is open, you don't need any more," he said.

I personally think that argument is absolutely bollocks, to use a good old LugRadio term here.
The more the merrier! Heck, if DTrace and ZFS some day gets into Linux then Sun open sourcing Solaris has suddenly helped advance Linux, and maybe some hardware support from Linux could go into Solaris, especially when we talk x86.

I think thats just FUD on IBM's part, they have spent alot of time and resources on AIX, and are worried about loosing there baby as it were.

I would guess the whole bit about solaris not seeming like a community is because of the lack of hardware support and perhaps enthusuism, i think its a good system with the features you mentioned like zfs and dtrace.
I tried a few months ago a live cd called BeleniX
http://www.genunix.org/distributions/be ... _home.html

It had zfs and dtrace and the desktop enviroment was KDE.
There was a option to install it.

There are a few other distros but for the x86 archetecture thats the project that seems to be actively maintained.

SchilliX is another one, but not as recent as BeleniX .
You can always build a solaris system yourself, if you have time.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:21 am

allix wrote:Thats right, FreeBSD , infact all the BSD's release less often but at a stable condition, than the linux motto "Release early" and hope it works

Not really, both FreeBSD and OpenBSD release about every sixth months, OpenBSD is very good at keeping this deadline. Linux distributions are a little different, because distros such as Fedora aims to be bleeding-edge in order to be kind of the upstream for RHEL. The project page for openSUSE states "create and distribute the world's most usable Linux.", however, lately I've had this "tech preview" feeling about certain parts of the distro, although I am quite positive about the future in regards to openSUSE.

allix wrote:I will wait for a quite a few releases before i commit myself to ZFS.

Yeah, maybe I'll even wait for FreeBSD 8!

Certain people in here have accused me of being a "SUSE whore", which is not true, I'm more of a stability/security/reliability "whore", if I am anything that includes the word "whore".

allix wrote:The DragonFly-BSD project looks interesting, but installing it on a unicore proc seems silly, its a distributed cluster based project if i am not mistaken.

Yeah, DragonFly-BSD's goals is some very very advanced clustering, stuff that Windows could only dream of.

allix wrote:I think thats just FUD on IBM's part, they have spent alot of time and resources on AIX, and are worried about loosing there baby as it were.

Yeah, no kidding!

allix wrote:I would guess the whole bit about solaris not seeming like a community is because of the lack of hardware support and perhaps enthusuism, i think its a good system with the features you mentioned like zfs and dtrace.

Lack of hardware support my ass, I'm willing to bet that it's much better than that of Mac OS X!

allix wrote:I tried a few months ago a live cd called BeleniX
http://www.genunix.org/distributions/be ... _home.html

It had zfs and dtrace and the desktop enviroment was KDE.
There was a option to install it.

There are a few other distros but for the x86 archetecture thats the project that seems to be actively maintained.

SchilliX is another one, but not as recent as BeleniX .
You can always build a solaris system yourself, if you have time.

I'm still hoping for a GPLing of Solaris, I think it would be quite interesting if Sun released Solaris under GPLv3. Because so far, Sun has not really been negative about GPLv3, plus as far as I know they are actually part of the GPLv3 discussion committees.

allix · Post by **allix** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:05 am

Tsuroerusu wrote: Not really, both FreeBSD and OpenBSD release about every sixth months, OpenBSD is very good at keeping this deadline. Linux distributions are a little different, because distros such as Fedora aims to be bleeding-edge in order to be kind of the upstream for RHEL.

I was refering to the linux kernel, i think it was the 2.6.16.x tree that had 20 new kernels in a week, of course you do not have to install a new kernel each time there is a new one released, its upto the distro to decide if they think its worth the upgrade.

Having said that , if you follow STABLE or CURRENT in FreeBSD, alot of changes happen frequently that may have bugs etc...

Tsuroerusu wrote: Yeah, maybe I'll even wait for FreeBSD 8!

Certain people in here have accused me of being a "SUSE whore", which is not true, I'm more of a stability/security/reliability "whore", if I am anything that includes the word "whore".

FreeBSD 8 , have they even written a roadmap for it

I have not really looked throughly through your posts, from what ive read you sound like a FreeBSD advocate

Tsuroerusu wrote: Lack of hardware support my ass, I'm willing to bet that it's much better than that of Mac OS X!

your right mac osx only supports ppc and intel chips, i am not sure if that means you can pick up any comodity hardware that you would for a windows box and just be able to use it.

Regarding solaris, there is only sparc and x86 port , of course the sparc port supports all hardware, because its designed by them

the x86 hardware support is not the same, and thats because there are less developers working on it.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:15 am

allix wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote: Not really, both FreeBSD and OpenBSD release about every sixth months, OpenBSD is very good at keeping this deadline. Linux distributions are a little different, because distros such as Fedora aims to be bleeding-edge in order to be kind of the upstream for RHEL.
I was refering to the linux kernel, i think it was the 2.6.16.x tree that had 20 new kernels in a week, of course you do not have to install a new kernel each time there is a new one released, its upto the distro to decide if they think its worth the upgrade.

Having said that , if you follow STABLE or CURRENT in FreeBSD, alot of changes happen frequently that may have bugs etc...

I see. What's interesting about the 2.6.16 kernel is that it's gonna be supported by the kernel team for a very very long time like is the case with the 2.4 kernel.

allix wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote: Yeah, maybe I'll even wait for FreeBSD 8!

Certain people in here have accused me of being a "SUSE whore", which is not true, I'm more of a stability/security/reliability "whore", if I am anything that includes the word "whore".
FreeBSD 8 , have they even written a roadmap for it

LOL, nope! But I'm since FreeBSD 7 will at least have three .X releases, and if ZFS is officially part of FreeBSD 7 then it will have a lot of time for being bugfixes and integrated and all that good stuff.

allix wrote:I have not really looked throughly through your posts, from what ive read you sound like a FreeBSD advocate

No no no! I'm a free software advocate!!

Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFly-BSD, OpenSolaris, it's all free software, all are perfectly good, it's something people should use!!

allix wrote:
Tsuroerusu wrote: Lack of hardware support my ass, I'm willing to bet that it's much better than that of Mac OS X!
your right mac osx only supports ppc and intel chips, i am not sure if that means you can pick up any comodity hardware that you would for a windows box and just be able to use it.

If I'm not mistaken, Solaris runs natively on Sparc, x86 and AMD64. It may not support like a crazy amount of "gadgets", but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work well for what it's designed for... servers and workstations.

allix wrote:Regarding solaris, there is only sparc and x86 port , of course the sparc port supports all hardware, because its designed by them the x86 hardware support is not the same, and thats because there are less developers working on it.

I thought I heard something about a PPC port of OpenSolaris some time ago.

allix · Post by **allix** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:14 pm

Tsuroerusu wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Solaris runs natively on Sparc, x86 and AMD64. It may not support like a crazy amount of "gadgets", but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work well for what it's designed for... servers and workstations.

Thats what i meant, NetBSD runs on alot of hardware but does not guarantee to run anything that is either put in the box or stuck in from outside the box,
I know what you mean about solaris not really being a desktop os for the ubuntu users anyway

, the live cd i used a few months ago , was certainly usable for me.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:32 pm

allix wrote:Thats what i meant, NetBSD runs on alot of hardware but does not guarantee to run anything that is either put in the box or stuck in from outside the box,

Yeah, don't even get into laptop suspend and power management in BSD!

allix wrote:I know what you mean about solaris not really being a desktop os for the ubuntu users anyway , the live cd i used a few months ago , was certainly usable for me.

Indeed, for example, I personally love OpenBSD, it's perfectly usable as a desktop OS for me, but it's probably not what I would give to my mom, because she want a USB key auto mounted, I don't mind mounting it myself or writing some scripts that'll do it.

allix · Post by **allix** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:02 am

Tsuroerusu wrote: Yeah, don't even get into laptop suspend and power management in BSD!

I believe the open bios project for the x86 anyway will fix this.

Speaking of laptops, only AFAIK the following two companies sell sparc laptops,
http://www.nextcomputing.com/
http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/

There very expensive though, i can not afford one of them at the moment.