"I hate Macs"

[greggh]

I tell you what, I've been using my system76 pretty hard lately and loving every minute of it. Their support is great too! I highly recommend them.

Yeah, I really want a system76 laptop however I do not like working with gnome. Although I guess I could install kubuntu even though I never was a fan of the changes they made to KDE. I wish they could just give me a good KDE distro. Well it is still going to be a couple more months before I even start looking into laptops so maybe they will come around by then.

Veering way off "topic" here:
What *is* a good kde distro? Mainly what I see when I dick around with distros that feature kde is that they've done even more tweaking than kubuntu have. I like kcontrol the way it is by default and I really don't think creating a new frontend to the same panels does anything to make it "less confusing." I think it'll need to be redesigned by the kde folks for that to happen. I imagine having distro-specific tools appeals to some folks, but to me it's just more cruft I have to learn in order to admin a box.

Debian Etch is very nice. They now even have KDE and XFCE specific install CDs from their weekly snapshot ISO builds...

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekl ... 86/iso-cd/

The KDE CD ISO is second from the bottom.

[Vogateer]

For a KDE distro, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols seems to like Simply Mepis, since it's now Ubuntu based and has always been a KDE desktop. I've thought about giving that a try. Notes on the release are here:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3978518159.html

Dann's recommendation may be all I need to go with System76. I just went back and looked at someone's relatively new MacBook, and I still think it looks much cleaner and simpler than the System76 laptop, but a laptop's aethetic is only one factor. Having a good linux wireless card and supporting a linux vendor is much more important to me, and that black lappie doesn't look too bad. Now, would I take off the ubuntu sticker? Tough call. It would give it a cleaner look, but it would break my heart to remove that sticker.

Oh yeah, I forgot to respond to CaptainObvious earlier, and just wanted to send a quick note to say that I agree with him, that if Apple had the power, they'd most likely be no better than Microsoft. That said, I prefer talking about the off-topic System76 and the hopeful possibility of new hardware in my future.

[Wally Balljacker]

Veering way off "topic" here:
What *is* a good kde distro? Mainly what I see when I dick around with distros that feature kde is that they've done even more tweaking than kubuntu have. I like kcontrol the way it is by default and I really don't think creating a new frontend to the same panels does anything to make it "less confusing." I think it'll need to be redesigned by the kde folks for that to happen. I imagine having distro-specific tools appeals to some folks, but to me it's just more cruft I have to learn in order to admin a box.

Well I personally like Sabayon and OpenSuSE 10.2 (if I didn't have so much bad luck with the distro) and I'm sure Mandriva is probably good too although I haven't tried it since Mandrake 10.1. To be honest I have not tried the last 2 or 3 versions of Kubuntu but when I did try it they messed with Konqueror a lot and KMix and a few other apps and I did not like the way they made it at all.

Maybe things have gotten better though, I will probably try the latest version real soon as well as Mandriva.

BTW if you install KDE everything on a System76 should still work right?

If you just "apt-get install kde", doesn't that pull in a vanilla KDE desktop? I think you only get the heavily modified version if you install the "kubuntu-desktop" metapackage.

[Tsuroerusu]

What *is* a good kde distro?

That's really hard to describe, I think it has a lot to do with the experience and the feel you get when you use a certain distro that is "a good KDE distro".

Personally I feel that openSUSE is by far the best KDE distro, I agree their package management is still less than optimal, but I think their KDE support is still second to none. If you put openSUSE's KDE desktop next to say Fedora, the first thing you're gonna notice is that it doesn't look like utter garbage, it looks really slick. Secondly, once you've been using it for a little while you start to nice small things that are pretty cool. For example, if you're on a laptop and you have KMail open, and use the KNetworkManager applet (Which was written by SUSE's KDE developers by the way), to disconnect from a wired or wireless network (Or just pull the plug out), KMail won't burb out error messages when it tries to check for email, because SUSE did a patch for KMail so that it knows about the network's status and don't check for new mail as long as you're offline.
Also, just the fact that SUSE really does some innovative things or fill a niche. They have done KPowersave (A power management applet, plus the underlying daemon), Kerry Beagle (KDE integration of Beagle), KNetworkManager (KDE integration of NetworkManager), and lately that menu for KDE (Like it or not, give 'em props for at least doing something to try and improve the user experience, and yes, they did usability studies for this thing), all of which Kubuntu users enjoy today. Sure I can totally see the argument that it doesn't matter who creates a piece of software in the free and open source software world, but I like using a distro where I know that such things will be done. It just shows some support in my opinion. Even today, SUSE still employs a handful of KDE developers, who works on KDE as part of their job and maintains KDE for the SUSE distro.

I can see the point of certain people liking a totally, 100 percent vanilla distro. But I like having a desktop that fits together extremely well, with the "duct tape" effect you sometimes experience. For example, in openSUSE 10.2, they did a little trick so that even if you have both KDE and GNOME installed and have themed both to look radically different, in terms of colors, when you're in KDE, the GTK apps will use the same colors as KDE, and when you're in GNOME they'll use the same theme as the rest of GNOME.

I guess this has been more of a rant about why I like openSUSE (:roll:), but I hope it demonstrates just a little bit, what makes me think of distro as a good KDE distro.

[KStorm]

Any OS with the sophomoric "Finder" as the name of a major application within it deserves ridicule. Would I choose a Mac over a Vista PC if Linux went see ya? Nope.

[Vogateer]

I don't know, I like to acknowledge to some extent who creates a piece of software. If they're making the software and adding features, I'm likely to favor them over a distro that simply imports those changes and adds them in. I do like some of the work Ubuntu is doing with Upstart and other projects of that nature, as well.

[Vogateer]

Whoa, I'm not sure if upstart is sponsered by Canonical or is a 3rd party project or what. I'm really not sure what the relationship is.

[Tsuroerusu]

I don't know, I like to acknowledge to some extent who creates a piece of software. If they're making the software and adding features, I'm likely to favor them over a distro that simply imports those changes and adds them in.

I agree, and I'm of the same opinion. However I'm sure some people (You know who you are) will make the argument, that they don't care who creates a specific program, because they can just install it on the distro they use.

I do like some of the work Ubuntu is doing with Upstart and other projects of that nature, as well.

Yes, this is definitely gonna be interesting to watch. However I'm still waiting to see the Kubuntu folks fill a niche/need in KDE.

KDE 4 is gonna have a lot of these things as part of KDE itself (Such as the network and power management, desktop/metadata search etc.). However even after KDE 4 is out, KDE 3 is not gonna be like an inferior desktop and go away, it's what you're gonna see deployed in enterprises for a good time-frame (Hint hint, the city of Munich is using KDE for their huge Linux deployment).

[Tsuroerusu]

Whoa, I'm not sure if upstart is sponsered by Canonical or is a 3rd party project or what. I'm really not sure what the relationship is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart
"In Unix computing, Upstart is an event-based replacement for the init daemon written by Scott James Remnant, an employee of Canonical Ltd."

[Vogateer]

I hope KDE4 is able to hit many of their goals. I think they had to scrap the idea of using Tenor as a "contextual linking engine" and seem to be going with Strigi as well. Beagle isn't too bad, but something faster and lighter would be welcome in my opinion. The guy who was supposed to be doing "Coolness" is AWOL, too. Sad to see some people leave the project like that.

[CptnObvious999]

I agree, and I'm of the same opinion. However I'm sure some people (You know who you are) will make the argument, that they don't care who creates a specific program, because they can just install it on the distro they use.

I think Novell has created some good software, I just like the underlying structure that Sabayon/Gentoo provides. If I like the package management of one distro and some of the software of another why should I not be able to combine the two? I wish SuSE worked for me but since 10.0 came out I have had nothing but problems on all 3 machines I have tried it one. (Although I got many more problems with 10.1) Also I don't like the Novell and Microsoft deal which is one of the reasons I don't like SuSE that much anymore.

The reason I like the wasy SUSE does it over Kubuntu is they provide extra functionality and allow you to use just vanilla kde if you want. Kubuntu messes with the control panel and various apps because it thinks thats what people want.

I am downloading the latest Kubuntu though so I can see if things have gotten better. Hopefully I will blog about what I find later in the week if I find time.

[CptnObvious999]

I hope KDE4 is able to hit many of their goals. I think they had to scrap the idea of using Tenor as a "contextual linking engine" and seem to be going with Strigi as well. Beagle isn't too bad, but something faster and lighter would be welcome in my opinion. The guy who was supposed to be doing "Coolness" is AWOL, too. Sad to see some people leave the project like that.

I think Tenor is still progressing but they had to take care of something else first IIRC although it probably won't be in KDE 4.0, maybe it will be in KDE 4.1. As far as Coolness I have not heard much on it.....in fact I actually forget what it is supposed to bring/do. Most of the other projects are coming along nicely. Oxygen gets new icons weekly (I have been using them for a long time from SVN) and Plasma and Phonon seems to be getting lots of work. Amarok 2.0 and KOffice 2.0 seem to still be in early development though.

[Tsuroerusu]

I hope KDE4 is able to hit many of their goals. I think they had to scrap the idea of using Tenor as a "contextual linking engine" and seem to be going with Strigi as well. Beagle isn't too bad, but something faster and lighter would be welcome in my opinion.

Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel_%28KDE%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kross_%28KDE%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_%28KDE%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28KDE%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_%28KDE%29

I know for a fact that all of these are making very good progress.

The guy who was supposed to be doing "Coolness" is AWOL, too. Sad to see some people leave the project like that.

Coolness was like desktop effects right? Well, I can tell you a little bit on what they're doing in that area. The stuff that Compiz and Beryl do, they're building right into their own window manager, KWin, so you're gonna have a compositing window manager in the form of KWin on the KDE 4 platform.

I think Novell has created some good software, I just like the underlying structure that Sabayon/Gentoo provides. If I like the package management of one distro and some of the software of another why should I not be able to combine the two?

True, gotta have the best accessories for that GCC screensaver.

I wish SuSE worked for me but since 10.0 came out I have had nothing but problems on all 3 machines I have tried it one. (Although I got many more problems with 10.1)

The package management problems I can certainly understand, but I don't get what other things you're describing, I've done a crapload of SUSE 10.0 installs, and every single one, not a single problem.

Also I don't like the Novell and Microsoft deal which is one of the reasons I don't like SuSE that much anymore.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I've actually decided that if Novell starts forking things like the GNU toolchain, glibc etc. etc. to get around GPLv3 (Richard Stallman and Eben Moglen has already sworn to block such patent deals as Novell has made), I'll be ditching openSUSE and going with either Debian GNU/Linux, FreeBSD or OpenBSD.

The reason I like the wasy SUSE does it over Kubuntu is they provide extra functionality and allow you to use just vanilla kde if you want.

Kubuntu messes with the control panel and various apps because it thinks thats what people want.

And you have to admit that their Adept package manager has like the crappiest UI ever made. This thing is abysmal in terms of usability. Anyone who argue that Kubuntu's changes to KDE are to improve "usability", they obviously have not taken a look at their ugly-ass package manager. Sure I can figure out how to use it, but I'd much rather deal with YaST's relatively slow start-up times and then have a proper UI, than having a fast, but miserable package manager.

I am downloading the latest Kubuntu though so I can see if things have gotten better.

Kubuntu has gotten a lot better, especially with Edgy, but they still need to fix that assy control center, and pull their heads out of their asses and throw out Adept and do something better instead.

Hopefully I will blog about what I find later in the week if I find time.

LOL, that's like the Dvorak threat!