Questions for Leo Laporte

bosshoff · Post by **bosshoff** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:33 pm

Hey, where is his site located? I heard him talking about the podcasts being offered up weekly, and it sounds interesting. Oh and great interview, keep up the awesome effort!

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:25 pm

their site is http://thisweekintech.com/ i think

I loved the interview. It covered many things ive never thought about. I especially like his opinion on DRM and Linux on the desktop. I totally I agree content creators need to let go. There is also an awesome article on what Linux needs to do to be noobie-friendly here

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:58 am

The famous Linux needs to be kinder to "newbies" comment. This one gets under my craw (just like the comment that there's no good games for Linux).

How bleedin' simpler does something like installing new applications have to get?

Open up Synaptic, find the application you want to install, click on a check-box then click th big "Apply" icon. Done. The application is installed.

Even easier: use Kanotix, go to the Klik website and simply click on the icon of the software you want to install. Done.

And many Linux games these days are installed as easily as using Konqueror and clicking on their installation script. Or you right-mouse click on your desktop and use the Run command line application to launch the install script.

Thats about the only grip I had with what Leo had to say in his interview. As far as I'm concerned, desktop Linux is ready for the "average" computer user. I'm forced to use XP at the office, and I can confidently say my Linux box at home is much easier to use and allows me to do a lot more than that awful XP box I'm forced to work with.

Hell, you realize how much trouble we've had with some of the applications we use at the office all thanks to that Service Pack 2 crap? Glad it wasn't my money being wasted on it.

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:04 pm

Judland wrote:The famous Linux needs to be kinder to "newbies" comment. This one gets under my craw (just like the comment that there's no good games for Linux).

I used to go to linuxquestions.org and answer lots of questions, lots of which were from newbies and semi-newbies. Unfortunately I havn't had time to do this but I know there are lots of people answering questions all the time.

Judland wrote:How bleedin' simpler does something like installing new applications have to get?

Open up Synaptic, find the application you want to install, click on a check-box then click th big "Apply" icon. Done. The application is installed.

Even easier: use Kanotix, go to the Klik website and simply click on the icon of the software you want to install. Done.

And many Linux games these days are installed as easily as using Konqueror and clicking on their installation script. Or you right-mouse click on your desktop and use the Run command line application to launch the install script.

Theres 2 problems with Synaptic/apt-get. There are now incompatibilities with some respositories and some programs are not in any respositories and it takes a while for respositories to update programs in it.

Judland wrote:Thats about the only grip I had with what Leo had to say in his interview. As far as I'm concerned, desktop Linux is ready for the "average" computer user. I'm forced to use XP at the office, and I can confidently say my Linux box at home is much easier to use and allows me to do a lot more than that awful XP box I'm forced to work with.

Hell, you realize how much trouble we've had with some of the applications we use at the office all thanks to that Service Pack 2 crap? Glad it wasn't my money being wasted on it.

I agree with this. When people ask what free program to use to do something i usually say "i dunno, i use [linux-only program] but its for linux"

I also have a good quote to describe DRM and how it effects the honest people that I like a lot If freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:57 pm

CptnObvious999 wrote: I used to go to linuxquestions.org and answer lots of questions, lots of which were from newbies and semi-newbies. Unfortunately I havn't had time to do this but I know there are lots of people answering questions all the time.

I "hear" you, Cptn, and I understand your point. I just wonder, now-a-days, is Windows XP that much different anymore? Although I don't visit them, I'm sure there are MS-Windows forums around with "Windows" people asking a lot of questions, too. I remember always picking the brain of our office's IT guy when I was a MS-Windows user. Of course, he rarely could answer my questions anyway, other than "did you try a re-install?"

I just think Linux is no longer as un-reachable as many people think. At least, not any more difficult than Microsoft or Mac.... in my humble opinion anyway.

As for the Synpatic problem, I feel this is a result of the distribution chosen. Kanotix is pure Debian Sid and therefore presents little (if any) difficulties. When I do an update, I know my system is going to finish without any problems. It's over a year now that I've been a Kanotix user and I haven't had any apt-get related problems (of course, I use the repositories specified by Kano alone which is probably why).

I can't say the same for other distros I've tried (Mepis being the last since adopting Kanotix). Mepis broke KDE when an upgrade was performed.

Post by **dann** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:46 pm

Judland wrote:The famous Linux needs to be kinder to "newbies" comment. This one gets under my craw (just like the comment that there's no good games for Linux).

How bleedin' simpler does something like installing new applications have to get?

Open up Synaptic, find the application you want to install, click on a check-box then click th big "Apply" icon. Done. The application is installed.

Even easier: use Kanotix, go to the Klik website and simply click on the icon of the software you want to install. Done.

Perhaps the problem is: I cannot go to [insert computer/electronics/big name retailer] buy a disc, put it in and a auto install app starts, I click ok, answer a few questions and see an icon appear on my desktop when it is all finished.

If I were to point to one issue I see with any package managment system in Linux that provides nice GUI interface like Synaptic is there are a hell of alot of enteries that the majority of people would have no idea what they heck that app or library is for. Perhaps there needs to be another interface on top that provides categories like "I want to play MP3's," "I want to burn dvd's," "I want to watch movies." Click that category and off you go. The software gets installed and when it is finished it tells you what software it installed, populates the Window Manager menu and then gives a little synopsis.

More and more the complaints I am hearing all have to do with "why can't Linux be more like Windows or OS X?" Why can't linux use AppDirectory? Why is there such a confusing directory structure?

First, what is difficult to comprehend when we look at these responses is that we live in a different world. Joe average user is completely blown away by an Operating system, regardless of the platform. While I think Synaptic is friggin awesome and couldn't get any easier (but I am sure it will) it's not the same as putting in a disc and off we go. That is what people seem to be used to. Or downloading .exe file from the web, click on it and install away.

Quite honestly, I don't think Joe-average can handle any OS directory structure. You should see the eyes glaze over when I even start to talk about where files should get stored when using a computer. And I am talking to teachers, pretty educated people, they aren't stoopid. It just that no one ever took the time to show them.

Windows is absolutely horrible with this. There's "My Documents" and the Desktop and then everything else is a mystery. Infact, they even try to hide this from you now. By default, Windows XP does not have a "My Computer" on the Desktop anymore so actually exploring the File System takes some careful sluething. Oh, right click on Start and select Explore or take note to the small type options in the upper left hand pane of an Explorer window.

When I ask someone to open up a word document 90% of the time instead of going to My Computer and drilling down to their file, they open word, go to open documents and if that window does not open up to where their document is (usually their home directory mapped to "H:" on the server) they are lost.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:28 pm

dann wrote: If I were to point to one issue I see with any package managment system in Linux that provides nice GUI interface like Synaptic is there are a hell of alot of enteries that the majority of people would have no idea what they heck that app or library is for. Perhaps there needs to be another interface on top that provides categories like "I want to play MP3's," "I want to burn dvd's," "I want to watch movies." Click that category and off you go. The software gets installed and when it is finished it tells you what software it installed, populates the Window Manager menu and then gives a little synopsis.

The only problem I see with this is you're taking away the freedom of choice. However, if your goal is to emulate Microsoft, then this will achieve it quite well.

This, of course, would then lead to the complaint: "I want to play MP3s, but I want to try out this new program called Kaffeine. Linux just installed something called XMMS and I don't want that. I want to choose the player to be installed not have Linux do it for me. Linux doesn't give the user enough choices!"

Between the two evils.... I'll take the OS just as it is now. Giving up freedom in the name of convenience is just plain wrong, and why I'm not a customer of Microsoft.

Now, enter the Klik software warehouse I mentioned earlier. Click on the category of software you want to use then choose a title. Even in live CD-mode you get the chance to locally install and use new applications with a single mouse-click.

The development of the Klik system seems to be coming along quite well, even better than Linspire's "click-n-run" warehouse - being free and all.

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:14 am

Part of the reason users switching from Windows don't like it is because they havn't grown up with it. They wonder why isn't there a start button and why does it look different. If they used Linux as their first desktop they would get familiar with it. But I agree he who sacrifices freedom for ease of use loses both and deserves neither. Linux has done some usability features that are very useful such as the filter boxes in AmaroK and KSig.

Post by **dann** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:15 am

Judland wrote:The only problem I see with this is you're taking away the freedom of choice. However, if your goal is to emulate Microsoft, then this will achieve it quite well.

This, of course, would then lead to the complaint: "I want to play MP3s, but I want to try out this new program called Kaffeine. Linux just installed something called XMMS and I don't want that. I want to choose the player to be installed not have Linux do it for me. Linux doesn't give the user enough choices!"

To an extent we could argue that choosing a distro limits freedom of choice. Ubuntu does not include Amarok or Xmms by default, you have to seek those out. Slackware doesn't include Totem or Amarok. And we can go on and on.

Now what I adovacted does not necessarily take away freedom of choice. Fire up the synaptic window and drop down to the multimedia tab. There are a lot of choices there. What else! Each repository you add may set another menu level. So instead of just Multimedia, you have Multimeda, Multimedia (non-free), Multimedia (this) (I forget the names). It can be a bit confusing.

By using a Wizard I am not saying you click a button that says I want to play mp3's and it drops down whatever the author thought best. Instead, you are then given a choice of applications with a description. So you can have Amarok, Totem, Xmms or whatever from which you can chose which ones to install. Right now it is a confusing (to newbies) list of all multimedia apps, tools, utilities and libraries.

Perhaps Linspire has this with the click and run and Klik software warehouse has this too? I have never used thos apps so I don't know.

I'm not adovcating the removal of choice, but those distrobutions that are moving towards being a desktop OS for the general user to implement bridges (be they wizards, tutorials, custom docs).

As for making Linux more like Windows, isn't KDE already doing this? I don't mean to bust on KDE, it's a great option and one of the Desktops that seem most comfortable to users coming from Windows. While I don't agree that Windows is at all User Friendly (I think the UI sucks) it is what most people are used to, so again, it's nice to have a bridge.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:33 am

I see what you mean now. Klik is an installation tool that does just this.

Speaking of KDE; their development team is now working on KDE 4.0 (aka Plasma). I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.

KDE may look like MS-Windows, but the similarities stop there, in my opinion. KDE offers much more in the way of functionality and configure ability.

CptnObvious999 · Post by **CptnObvious999** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:46 pm

most distros come with at least one web browser, media player, and mail client but if a newbie pulled down synaptic and wanted a mp3 player and it gave him one all the newbies would have the same program. If those programs had a critical security flaw it would compromise hundreds of linux boxes which is one of the problems with IE and outlook. Also who is to say which one media player or web browser is best?