Linux Free Driver Development

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:15 am

This news is a few weeks old, I know, but it came up again on the OpenBSD mailing list yesterday and day before and based on last night's episode, I thought it was worth mentioning. As you probably recall, some Linux developers (Greg Kroah-Hartman) have offered to write free drivers for companies as long as companies provide some information about the hardware. The Linux devs also said they would sign NDA's if necessary.

Here was the original annoucement:
http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/free_drivers.html

And here is a follow up FAQ:
http://www.kroah.com/log/

Anyway, check out the discussion on the OpenBSD mailing list. The topic is "Free Linux Driver Development":

http://www.mail-archive.com/misc@openbsd.org/

And check out Theo de Raadt's response (the last in the thread). Pretty tough words.

Post by **dann** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:00 am

That was a damn good thread, and a lot of great points were made. While I think the offer to write drivers for free is great, I too am concerned about the NDA clause. That benefits no one in the long run.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:58 pm

Ahhh, yes. Theo at his usual diplomatic finest.

Post by **Patrick** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:00 pm

I've traded many emails with Theo. He will be coming on at some point. It's just a question of when?

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:50 pm

Patrick wrote:I've traded many emails with Theo. He will be coming on at some point. It's just a question of when?

That is fantastic. I would very much like to hear an interview with him.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:16 pm

dann wrote:That was a damn good thread, and a lot of great points were made. While I think the offer to write drivers for free is great, I too am concerned about the NDA clause. That benefits no one in the long run.

Exactly! Let's look at another scenario. If ATi dumped out the source code for the driver branches for their older non-HDTV cards, that would only be a short term victory, because as the rest of the kernel moves forward, these drivers would not be maintainable, because nobody know how the damn card works!
Besides insisting on their freedom, this is EXACTLY why OpenBSD is so aggressive towards binary blobs.

Snarkout wrote:Ahhh, yes. Theo at his usual diplomatic finest.

Very true, however I also see it as very very on point diplomacy.
Here's a quote from Theo de Raadt, that I think is absolute engenius:
"I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid."
KernelTrap.org, May 2, 2006

Patrick wrote:I've traded many emails with Theo. He will be coming on at some point. It's just a question of when?

Awesome!! You know I'll be staying up late to hear that one!

The OpenBSD project has a history of being good at releasing on time, which they can do because like I mentioned on this week's TLLTS, they utilize an evolutionary development approach rather than a revolutionary development approach, where there's new wiz-bang features in every release. The things you see most of it more auditing, more drivers, driver improvements, tons of bugfixes etc. etc.

Chess wrote:
Patrick wrote:I've traded many emails with Theo. He will be coming on at some point. It's just a question of when?
That is fantastic. I would very much like to hear an interview with him.

Yeah!
The work that he and his team has been doing over the years on both their OS, OpenSSH, OpenNTPD and OpenBGPD is just phenomenal. They're also working on a project they call OpenCVS.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:41 pm

I think Theo could make a much bigger impact on the FOSS world if he stopped calling bullshit on everyone and everything that doesn't fit in with his extremely narrow world view. He obviously never took to heart the old saw about vinegar, honey and flies...

Or another way to put it: getting ugly early is never going to win an argument amicably.

allix · Post by **allix** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:14 pm

Snarkout wrote:I think Theo could make a much bigger impact on the FOSS world if he stopped calling bullshit on everyone and everything that doesn't fit in with his extremely narrow world view. He obviously never took to heart the old saw about vinegar, honey and flies...

Or another way to put it: getting ugly early is never going to win an argument amicably.

is he really like that in real life?
I could imagine swear words replaced by polite words with the same sentiment.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:23 pm

Snarkout wrote:Or another way to put it: getting ugly early is never going to win an argument amicably.

"It is not he who gains the exact point in dispute who scores most in controversy -- but he who has shown the better temper."

Samuel Butler (1612-1680) British poet and satirist.

snarkout · Post by **snarkout** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:37 pm

Chess wrote:
Snarkout wrote:Or another way to put it: getting ugly early is never going to win an argument amicably.
"It is not he who gains the exact point in dispute who scores most in controversy -- but he who has shown the better temper."

Samuel Butler (1612-1680) British poet and satirist.

Brilliant!

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:54 pm

Ahhh, the power of quotes. I've tried many times to express the same sentiment, but could never have achieved that level of pithiness.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:31 pm

Snarkout wrote:I think Theo could make a much bigger impact on the FOSS world if he stopped calling bullshit on everyone and everything that doesn't fit in with his extremely narrow world view. He obviously never took to heart the old saw about vinegar, honey and flies...

Or another way to put it: getting ugly early is never going to win an argument amicably.

"So the HP guy comes up to me (at the Melbourne conference) and he says, 'If you say nasty things like that to vendors you're not going to get anything'. I said 'no, in eight years of saying nothing, we've got nothing, and I'm going to start saying nasty things, in the hope that some of these vendors will start giving me money so I'll shut up'." - Theo de Raadt

Vogateer wrote:Ahhh, the power of quotes. I've tried many times to express the same sentiment, but could never have achieved that level of pithiness.

http://www.wikiquote.org

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:39 pm

Quotes are fun, but no substitute for attempting to master the language. I could simply use quotes for whatever I'm thinking, but I prefer to learn from them and one day speak with eloquence and lucidity.

Funny enough, waiting eight years until he became ugly means that he didn't become ugly early on. Some people do respond to that. If they don't, though, then you just look like a jerk.

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:07 pm

Vogateer wrote:Funny enough, waiting eight years until he became ugly means that he didn't become ugly early on. Some people do respond to that. If they don't, though, then you just look like a jerk.

Theo is not "nasty" all the time, example: http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/ ... /1334.html

Here's a good one for your consideration: http://kerneltrap.org/node/7184

A great article with tons of details on wireless drivers: http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/293/

I really like the position Ralink seem to take, you know who's technology will be in my WiFi cards if I ever need one.

Also, I think this statement by Theo is just brilliant:
I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid.

schotty · Post by **schotty** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:53 am

Patrick wrote:I've traded many emails with Theo. He will be coming on at some point. It's just a question of when?

You are my new hero. Thanks! I would love to hear what you guys can get him to say. Besides OBSD rocks, for obvious reasons.