Show 6/20/07 Fedora Laptop Woes

[jaz]

Riddlebox had some trouble with his laptop freezing using the new Fedora. I have had nothing but trouble with the 2.6.20.xx kernel (any distro) on my laptop (will not boot). Ended up sticking with Suse using 2.6.18.13. Ubuntu also uses 2.6.18.xx so that may be why it works better for him. I did play around with Sidux which uses 2.6.21.3 and it worked ok. As a joe user it is my opinion 2.6.18 is the "good" kernel for 2007. That being said I am still downloading Fedora so I don't know for sure what kernel it is using.

[Jza]

Distrowatch might have that data:
2.6.21.5
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fedora

[Tsuroerusu]

Riddlebox had some trouble with his laptop freezing using the new Fedora. I have had nothing but trouble with the 2.6.20.xx kernel (any distro) on my laptop (will not boot). Ended up sticking with Suse using 2.6.18.13. Ubuntu also uses 2.6.18.xx so that may be why it works better for him. I did play around with Sidux which uses 2.6.21.3 and it worked ok. As a joe user it is my opinion 2.6.18 is the "good" kernel for 2007. That being said I am still downloading Fedora so I don't know for sure what kernel it is using.

I heard the "good kernel of 2007" was 2.6.20. Anyway, I have tested Fedora 7 on three (And quite different I might add) x86 machines that have sitting around, on all of them it has worked flawlessly (In terms of stability and reliability). One of these machines is my ThinkPad X31 laptop. When I hear about lock-ups in Fedora 7, in most cases it's a laptop that locks up.

I think this is caused by the fact that Fedora chose 2.6.21 (An interesting this to note is that their Xen kernel is 2.6.20) for F7, and the fact that a lot of huge changes is in there this time: The new libata stack that makes any disk device look like a SCSI device. New firewire stack. New power management stuff etc.

I think problems have shown up related to each of these new changes. On my laptop, where suspend and hibernate normally works, doesn't work on Fedora 7, I have heard the same thing from other ThinkPad users, so I'm sure this has got something to do with the new power management changes.

[Tsuroerusu]

I just read this on Linux-Watch:
"In a panel discussion chaired by Jon Corbett, a Linux developer himself and editor of LWN.net, the group took on many contentious issues. After introductions, in which the quiet Morton unexpectedly added a note of levity by remarking that "If you don't know who I am you shouldn't be here," Corbett started the panel off by asking, "Is the quality of the current kernel (Linux 2.6.21) horrific?"

Many in Linux development circles felt that too many "not ready for prime time" features were added in the 2.6.21 kernel. Such features included the introduction of the "tickless" kernel and a new IDE (integrated drive electronics) sub-system, along with major changes in how Linux deals with ACPI (advanced configuration and power interface).

...

Still, "We need to work on regressions more," Morton allowed, conceding that "2.6.21 was perhaps a bit more buggy that it should be."

Much of the work on the soon-to-arrive 2.6.22 kernel is being devoted to stabilizing these new features. Bottomley observed that the Linux kernel developers must deal with the "tension between new features and stabilizing those features." He urged users to remember that, "If you're running Fedora Core 7, then you're helping us to stabilize and test the kernel."

You can find the entire article here: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8296942554.html

I don't want to pull a Theo de Raadt and say that the Linux kernel is a piece of sh!t, but I honestly think something is going too fast, and that somebody is making bad decisions.

[jaz]

[I don't want to pull a Theo de Raadt and say that the Linux kernel is a piece of sh!t, but I honestly think something is going too fast, and that somebody is making bad decisions.]

There is too much pressure to release quickly, but the Linux community in general likes new stuff. How many distro reviews have you read that slammed the software because it didn't have the newest XYZ package? I like the Debian Stable/Unstable/Testing or Freebsd's Release/Current setup. If you want to play with fire install a testing branch. I like my computer to operate in a predictable way so I prefer to stay in the slow lane.
[/quote]

[Tsuroerusu]

There is too much pressure to release quickly, but the Linux community in general likes new stuff.

Well, then I think the kernel developers ought to play parents and not do what's fun, but what's good.

How many distro reviews have you read that slammed the software because it didn't have the newest XYZ package?

Lots, because the reviewer was an idiot!
Seriously, people who thinks the idea of putting half-baked features into a production distro needs to get his head out of his ass.

I like the Debian Stable/Unstable/Testing or Freebsd's Release/Current setup. If you want to play with fire install a testing branch.

Yeah, there's always the people who likes a round of Russian roulette in regards to glibc!

I like my computer to operate in a predictable way so I prefer to stay in the slow lane.

Yeah, I like this as well. This is one of the things I like about OpenBSD, compared to FreeBSD. They only do major upgrades in the ports tree when a new release comes out, like pretty much all GNU/Linux distros do. FreeBSD rolls new apps into the ports tree on a regular basis, if you like having the latest stuff, that's probably nice, but if you like running a really stable system, it sucks.

[riddlebox]

I did forget to mention the biggest bother for me with any version of fedora core/ fedora. On my compaq presario 715us laptop under any fedora version the touchpad does totally different things than on any other distro. If you press certain areas of the touch pad it will go back in firefox, sometimes one page, sometimes back to your homepage. Other times it will just minimize all of my apps. This really bothers me, I will just be trying to move the cursor and all of a sudden things just start happening....As much as I try to like fedora these little things just kill me.

[Tsuroerusu]

I did forget to mention the biggest bother for me with any version of fedora core/ fedora. On my compaq presario 715us laptop under any fedora version the touchpad does totally different things than on any other distro. If you press certain areas of the touch pad it will go back in firefox, sometimes one page, sometimes back to your homepage. Other times it will just minimize all of my apps. This really bothers me, I will just be trying to move the cursor and all of a sudden things just start happening....As much as I try to like fedora these little things just kill me.

Since this hasn't been fixed over several versions, I would report it as a bug. Try using your Ubuntu generated xorg.conf in Fedora, if that fixes the problem, then we know it's Fedora's X configuration system that does weird stuff, if it isn't it might be some patch or environmental setting. Since it hasn't been fixed over several versions, this is obviously not a bug a lot of people are experiencing, so go to http://bugzilla.redhat.com and report it. It may be a gripe of yours, but if the developers don't know about it, it can never get fixed.

[snarkout]

Have you banged on your xorg.conf at all? Most of what you describe is probably due to settings there.

[Wally Balljacker]

Riddlebox had some trouble with his laptop freezing using the new Fedora. I have had nothing but trouble with the 2.6.20.xx kernel (any distro) on my laptop (will not boot). Ended up sticking with Suse using 2.6.18.13. Ubuntu also uses 2.6.18.xx so that may be why it works better for him. I did play around with Sidux which uses 2.6.21.3 and it worked ok. As a joe user it is my opinion 2.6.18 is the "good" kernel for 2007. That being said I am still downloading Fedora so I don't know for sure what kernel it is using.

I heard the "good kernel of 2007" was 2.6.20. Anyway, I have tested Fedora 7 on three (And quite different I might add) x86 machines that have sitting around, on all of them it has worked flawlessly (In terms of stability and reliability). One of these machines is my ThinkPad X31 laptop. When I hear about lock-ups in Fedora 7, in most cases it's a laptop that locks up.

I think this is caused by the fact that Fedora chose 2.6.21 (An interesting this to note is that their Xen kernel is 2.6.20) for F7, and the fact that a lot of huge changes is in there this time: The new libata stack that makes any disk device look like a SCSI device. New firewire stack. New power management stuff etc.

I think problems have shown up related to each of these new changes. On my laptop, where suspend and hibernate normally works, doesn't work on Fedora 7, I have heard the same thing from other ThinkPad users, so I'm sure this has got something to do with the new power management changes.

It must be a Fedora-specific problem, because I have stock kernels 2.6.20, and 2.6.21 on Debian Etch, and they both work fine on my ThinkPad.

[Tsuroerusu]

Riddlebox had some trouble with his laptop freezing using the new Fedora. I have had nothing but trouble with the 2.6.20.xx kernel (any distro) on my laptop (will not boot). Ended up sticking with Suse using 2.6.18.13. Ubuntu also uses 2.6.18.xx so that may be why it works better for him. I did play around with Sidux which uses 2.6.21.3 and it worked ok. As a joe user it is my opinion 2.6.18 is the "good" kernel for 2007. That being said I am still downloading Fedora so I don't know for sure what kernel it is using.

I heard the "good kernel of 2007" was 2.6.20. Anyway, I have tested Fedora 7 on three (And quite different I might add) x86 machines that have sitting around, on all of them it has worked flawlessly (In terms of stability and reliability). One of these machines is my ThinkPad X31 laptop. When I hear about lock-ups in Fedora 7, in most cases it's a laptop that locks up.

I think this is caused by the fact that Fedora chose 2.6.21 (An interesting this to note is that their Xen kernel is 2.6.20) for F7, and the fact that a lot of huge changes is in there this time: The new libata stack that makes any disk device look like a SCSI device. New firewire stack. New power management stuff etc.

I think problems have shown up related to each of these new changes. On my laptop, where suspend and hibernate normally works, doesn't work on Fedora 7, I have heard the same thing from other ThinkPad users, so I'm sure this has got something to do with the new power management changes.

It must be a Fedora-specific problem, because I have stock kernels 2.6.20, and 2.6.21 on Debian Etch, and they both work fine on my ThinkPad.

I know for a fact you don't have the same ThinkPad that I have (X31), and the thing about laptops is that every single model is different. I think it was in a review on Linux.com I saw it mentioned that suspend was not working on a ThinkPad T or X 40, can't remember exactly.

[schotty]

I have 2 Fedora 7 installs, both running perfect. Honestly, this is by far the best release yet. Plus its the one release that is making me lear SElinux