debian - installing programs from repositories

[steve riley]

Hello Linux Link Tech Show,

Thanks for the show. Very fun.

I'm thinking of switching from suse to debian (ubuntu or kanotix).

I've heard (probably on your show) that if you install or reconfigure programs outside what is available through the debian repositories there's a big risk that you'll screw up your machine.

Does this mean I should never install anything outside what is available in the repositories? What about an editor like NVU or bluefish? I bet a proprietary program like Zend Studio isn't in the repositories. (??)

Also, if I install Apache or mySQL from the repositories, do I have to accept the configuration that I get - ie, I can't move any files?

Please be a little more specific on what I should NOT do on a debian machine regarding installing programs. I want the convenience of installing from repositories, but need to know the limitations a little better.

Thanks,

SR

[Judland]

I've installed programs not in the Debian repositories on my Kanotix box. Seemed fine to me. Most of those where games (self contained .sh install files).

Both Nvu and Bluefish are in the Kanotix repositories as well as the Klik respository too.

I think where your problems my lie is with Ubuntu as it is it's own Debian - sort of - and you should probably only install "Ubuntu approved" apps or risk some hiccups. I could be wrong about this, as I've never tried to maintain an Ubuntu system.

Kanotix, however, is pure Debian SID, so all generic Debian apps should install okay for it.

[jsusanka]

you should have no problem with debian or ubuntu. ubuntu does have it's own repositories but they feed off debian and debain feeds off them.

I have installed both the latest debian and ubuntu and the only difference is that ubuntu has newer stuff and better hardware detection.

I have compiled same packages on both and have had no problems. I know bluefish is both repositories but I don't know about nvu - never used it and I don't see it in the ubuntu repositories. I have debian on servers at work and when I get there I will check and see if it is in the debian repos.

Ubuntu is nice in that in all comes on one cd. You install the cd and you are up and running in gnome and then you can use synaptics to install what you want i.e server packages, kde, fluxbox, etc.

[dann]

Deviating from your distros standard repositories can come with some risk. Debian has, by far, the largest repositories, but unless you are running sid or etch, those repostitories may be a bit out of date compared to Ubuntu or Kanotix. Thus, if you are looking for the latest packages, then you will want to run sid or etch but risk stability.

Ubuntu, I believe, is based on etch. I've never added debian etch repositories to ubuntu but I know that some apps I have tried to install from the debian package system will not install without forcing. A lot of this has to do with naming. Even though the packages are the same (version and all) they may be named differently. While you could force these packages, you will then get constant warnings when installing later packages that there are broken dependencies/packages.

While there is a debian nvu package, it is for linspire and I have never tried to install it. I have and do use the static binary which is available on the site. I've used it under slackware, debian sarge and ubuntu without problems.

When you deviate from your distros standard repositories you may run into dependency issues. For instance, I have the marillat repository (etch) in my sources but I get complaints about libc6 not being the right version or greater when trying to install some packages (transcode for one). Thus, while I can install most of the dependencies; there remain a few that require a specific package version making it difficult.

Now word has it Breezy will take care of this and is due out sometime this month so we shall see. There are other work arounds, adding other repositories, but when you mess with something like libc6, you jeopardize your entire system.

Unless you elect to compile from source, some packages may be tricky to install.

By-and-large, installing or forcing a package will probably not break you system (unless it is a critical package like libc6 or glib). And if things go wonky, you can always remove the package.

[steve riley]

Thanks for the replies. I need to do some research regarding how repositories work.

But let me ask this, which I think would be a common concern -

What if I want to set up Apache-mySQL-PHP. I download binaries. I move things (like htdocs or PHP modules) around for security purposes or just because I like them in a different place. Can I then use the repositories for updates to those programs? Do I have to leave files whereever the Debian package system initially puts them?

[Patrick]

What if I want to set up Apache-mySQL-PHP. I download binaries. I move things (like htdocs or PHP modules) around for security purposes or just because I like them in a different place. Can I then use the repositories for updates to those programs? Do I have to leave files whereever the Debian package system initially puts them?

As long as you have your configuration are files pointing to your new locations you should be fine. As far as I know configuration files (for Apache, php, mySQL) are not overwritten when you upgrade, unistall, re-install the packages. Other application/libraries may come with config files. When doing a package upgrade you might get a message saying do you want to install the package maintainers config file? I believe the default is no but you have to hit enter to finish the installation.

[steve riley]

A neat hint I got regarding keeping track of installed files is this -

Before install:
find / | grep -v -e ^/proc/ -e ^/tmp/ -e ^/dev/ > preinstall.txt

After install:
find / | grep -v -e ^/proc/ -e ^/tmp/ -e ^/dev/ > postinstall.txt

What was installed:
diff preinstall.txt postinstall.txt > installed.txt

Although this wouldn't cover a file that was replaced by a file of the same name.