Richard Stallman looks back at 25 years of the GNU project

[Tsuroerusu]

How is this justification for God belief? Just because there are questions we don't currently have answers to, that doesn't justify turning to the supernatural. If we are ignorant of something, why should we fill that lack of knowledge with supernatural fluff that can't be tested? To make us feel better? To give us a false sense of understanding and security? No thanks. I'm happy saying "I don't know", as opposed to "magic man in the sky must have done it!"

I believe because it's has been documented for us in a series of books together known as the Bible. History backs up the story within the books, and even a secular Jewish historian documented Jesus and his crucifixion. God didn't want us to be ignorant and gave us all the information we needed in written form. As a fact the Bible is the best selling book of all time, and estimated to have sold over 6 billion copies between 1816 to 1992. If the Bible was tracked on the best seller list it would be a rare week when it would not be number 1.

How is that any different from saying that the stuff written in the Harry Potter books are actually real events that have taken place? Dude, anybody can write a book and claim it to be the truth.

Evolution is a theory AND fact. It doesn't require faith to accept facts.

BTW, I brought up the human body in reference to intelligent design. Have you ever watched an animal after it gave birth, and seen how it instinctively knows what to do in raising it's young. It's as though the animal has been programmed to know exactly what to do without being taught. There are things that go beyond evolution when you look at the world and the many wondrous creatures in it.

There's an explanation for why it instinctively knows that, by the way:

Instinctive behavior can be demonstrated across much of the broad spectrum of animal life. According to Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection, a favorable trait, such as an instinct, will be selected for through competition and improved survival rate of life forms possessing the instinct. Thus, for evolutionary biology, instincts can be explained in terms of behaviors that favor survival.

A good example of an immediate instinct for certain types of bird is imprinting. This is the behaviour that causes geese to follow around the first moving object that they encounter, as it tends to be their mother. Much work was done on this concept by the psychologist Konrad Lorenz.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct#Evolution

To sum the concept up in a simple way, males, of any species, have an urge to mate because of the survival of their species, and in the same way, females of most species care for their young for a certain period of time, because the survival of their species depends on them doing that.

I ask this,

I know you weren't asking me, but I just thought I'd offer you my opinion.

if you have no belief in God, what is the purpose of this life?

I think we ourselves alone, define our purpose. Many people spend their entire lives looking for a meaning of life, and an answer to why we are here. Being an adopted child, and having been subjected to various forms of racism in (I'm adopted from Sri Lanka, and my skin is dark), my life experiences has taught me that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant, it's what you do with your life, that determines who you are. At the kindergarten I went to 17 years ago, one of the adults were definitely not there just to earn a wage, the amount of work and effort she put into her job was just stunning. I don't have any idea why she did that all of that, which she technically did not have to, but if she did all of that just to help others, and contribute to a positive upbringing for the children she cared for, that sure is as noble a purpose as you can get.

How are you planning on living your life?

I don't try to "plan" anything quite frankly, most people these days seem to have a "shopping list" for their lives "Education? Check ... Work? Check ... House? Check ... Children? Check ...", and I don't like that. There are some things I would like to do in my life time (And I can change this list arbitrarily at any point in time), but that's not planning in my opinion, because I don't have any idea of how I might about doing them. I look at life like a river, with an infinite amount of splits. We're all gonna die at some point, that's the only thing in life we know for certain, just like a river is inevitably gonna end up in the ocean. The splits that river might make along the way, is like making a choice between several options. The question, to me, therefore is, how and when do we get there? The choices we make in life determines the answers to those two questions. If you smoke a lot, the answer to the question of when you get to life's inevitable end is likely impacted by that.

[MattKingUSA]

This topic is well annoying. It's back and forth with, "well here's the way that it is." followed by "prove it!" and "oh yeah well how come..".

You guys realize that this converstaion is just going to continue this way right? All the conversation is going to amount to aboslutely nothing I would guess. It's just really boring. Let's talk about free software. That's something that we all like.

[Patrick]

This topic is well annoying. It's back and forth with, "well here's the way that it is." followed by "prove it!" and "oh yeah well how come..".

You guys realize that this converstaion is just going to continue this way right? All the conversation is going to amount to aboslutely nothing I would guess. It's just really boring. Let's talk about free software. That's something that we all like.

Yeah, back to the main topic. Stallman is STILL an asshole.

[greggh]

This topic is well annoying. It's back and forth with, "well here's the way that it is." followed by "prove it!" and "oh yeah well how come..".

You guys realize that this converstaion is just going to continue this way right? All the conversation is going to amount to aboslutely nothing I would guess. It's just really boring. Let's talk about free software. That's something that we all like.

Yeah, back to the main topic. Stallman is STILL an asshole.

Stallman rules!

[greggh]

To prove that Stallman rules, what other computer geek could convert a hot Latin chick to their very own Church (the Church of emacs)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzfokdvS77E

[Tsuroerusu]

To prove that Stallman rules, what other computer geek could convert a hot Latin chick to their very own Church (the Church of emacs)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzfokdvS77E

Pricelss!

[Wally Balljacker]

That book I menioned called the Bible covers all of this.

And what authority does the Bible hold? Because it says it's true, that means it's true? Come on. Why shouldn't I accept the Koran instead of the Bible? Or what about some other holy book? Why regard the Bible above any other ancient holy text? I have zero reason to believe that the Bible is more than fairy tales written by ignorant, bronze-age, slave-owning men. Besides, what part of the Bible should I follow? Do I disregard the stuff that advocates slavery? Do I disregard the stuff that says people should be stoned to death for working on the sabbath? What about the stuff that says parents should kill their rebellious children by stoning? I find it hard to believe that people in the 21st-century still take this hogwash seriously.

If you have no belief in God, what is the purpose of this life?

Whatever I want it to be. I don't believe life has any intrinsic purpose. We make our own destinies, and we give our own lives purpose. It doesn't come from some spooky, supernatural authority figure. I have to ask you, if there is some magical afterlife, what is the purpose of this life? Doesn't an eternity of bliss negate this silly, 75-year existence on Earth? Personally, I think accepting that there is no afterlife or God makes this life infinitely more valuable. If you get an eternity in heaven, that absolutely diminishes this life. So I think it's just the opposite. Atheism means embracing the one and only life we get, and not hoping for another one.

[MattKingUSA]

That book I menioned called the Bible covers all of this.

And what authority does the Bible hold? Because it says it's true, that means it's true? Come on. Why shouldn't I accept the Koran instead of the Bible? Or what about some other holy book? Why regard the Bible above any other ancient holy text? I have zero reason to believe that the Bible is more than fairy tales written by ignorant, bronze-age, slave-owning men. Besides, what part of the Bible should I follow? Do I disregard the stuff that advocates slavery? Do I disregard the stuff that says people should be stoned to death for working on the sabbath? What about the stuff that says parents should kill their rebellious children by stoning? I find it hard to believe that people in the 21st-century still take this hogwash seriously.

Hey man, I just kind of wanted to bring you up to speed on the topic. We were back on Stallman. I don't want to be rude. But I was just letting you know. PS. You used the words "hog wash" I thought that was a brit saying. I think I'll start using that more.

[jturning]

And what authority does the Bible hold? Because it says it's true, that means it's true? Come on. Why shouldn't I accept the Koran instead of the Bible? Or what about some other holy book? Why regard the Bible above any other ancient holy text? I have zero reason to believe that the Bible is more than fairy tales written by ignorant, bronze-age, slave-owning men. Besides, what part of the Bible should I follow? Do I disregard the stuff that advocates slavery? Do I disregard the stuff that says people should be stoned to death for working on the sabbath? What about the stuff that says parents should kill their rebellious children by stoning? I find it hard to believe that people in the 21st-century still take this hogwash seriously.

No man should believe anything blindly, whether the Bible, Evolution, or anything else being taught. A man should examine, investigate, weigh the evidence, then come to his own conclusion. One shouldn't brashly come to conclusions unless he's studied the subject and can give a detailed reason for what he believes.

Some of the harsh things you mentioned are in the old testament, but it was during the time God was setting aside Israel and preparing them spiritually for Him to come. He had just shown great supernatural power to free His people who were slaves to the Egyptians. Yes he had harsh regulations, but they were clearly given to the people that had just witnessed their deliverance by the power of God. They were free to leave, or to stay and be subject. This was a dangerous time as many of the peoples around the Israelites worshiped false gods and even sacrificed their children among many other detestable practices. The Israelites had to be separated and purified from what the rest of the world was during that time.

Whatever I want it to be. I don't believe life has any intrinsic purpose. We make our own destinies, and we give our own lives purpose. It doesn't come from some spooky, supernatural authority figure. I have to ask you, if there is some magical afterlife, what is the purpose of this life? Doesn't an eternity of bliss negate this silly, 75-year existence on Earth? Personally, I think accepting that there is no afterlife or God makes this life infinitely more valuable. If you get an eternity in heaven, that absolutely diminishes this life. So I think it's just the opposite. Atheism means embracing the one and only life we get, and not hoping for another one.

You're free to believe what you like. As Christians we don't devalue this life, but we are encouraged even more to love one another, serve each other, and live a morally right life.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5)

I studied Astronomy, Physics and the sciences in college long before I was a believer. There came a time in my life where my curiosity was raised regarding the Bible and Christianity, so I investigated. I've read the Bible from cover to cover and am now a believer. Over the last 12 years God has shown me that he exists and works in the circumstances of my life and has answered my prayers. Moreover, God promises to meet all of our needs while here on earth.

Only because of faith in God do I do some of the things I do. I wouldn't ride a motorcycle all over California if I didn't have faith in being kept safe on the roads. Even though I have extensive defensive driving experience, California drivers are dangerous. I constantly read in the local paper of other motorcyclists dying from drivers crossing the double yellows among other things outside one's control. I wouldn't backpack in the back country with mountain lions and black bears if I didn't have faith. I wouldn't have held some dangerous jobs I've had in the past if I didn't have faith. I wouldn't have gotten married if I didn't have faith, . For me, God is real and I follow.

Bugz

[hellonorman]

Only because of faith in God do I do some of the things I do. I wouldn't ride a motorcycle all over California if I didn't have faith in being kept safe on the roads. Even though I have extensive defensive driving experience, California drivers are dangerous. I constantly read in the local paper of other motorcyclists dying from drivers crossing the double yellows among other things outside one's control. I wouldn't backpack in the back country with mountain lions and black bears if I didn't have faith. I wouldn't have held some dangerous jobs I've had in the past if I didn't have faith. I wouldn't have gotten married if I didn't have faith, . For me, God is real and I follow.

God loves us beyond human understanding, but we live in a fallen sinful world. In a world where man has free will, evil is an inevitable consequence. And suffering helps get people's attention to bring about faith, appreciate the good, influence others.

A man should examine, investigate, weigh the evidence, then come to his own conclusion.

So those other motorcyclists lacked faith and were therefore not kept safe by God? Or perhaps they had faith but were chosen by God to suffer to get people's attention to bring about faith. Either way it seems you could be killed at any time riding your bike whether you have faith or not. It makes a man wonder how you could have investigated and weighed the evidence and come to the conclusion that God is keeping you safe on the dangerous roads of CA just because you have faith.


Can you explain how you reached that conclusion after examining, investigating and weighing the evidence?

[hellonorman]

That's a shame I was really hoping to get an answer to that one because the logic baffles me.

[eddie]

Is linux after 25 years now a religion? I guess I was misled by the thread name.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... inux&hl=en

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If you believe in him, life is everlasting. So all the trying experiences are what teaches you to be better in your next physical life if there is one. Deja vu. So begs the question, if you do not believe in Christianity, therefore you do not exist? I believe in altruism and not all the fancy adornments of the existing church hierarchy. All the money that spent on fancy cathedrals, should instead should be put into homes and hospitals for the less fortunate. I remember being downtown Houston waiting for the bus. My particular bus line had problems that day. After almost two hours I decided to sit down to wait for the bus. on the soft lawn of that particular affluent Baptist church I was asked to leave as if I was some kind of criminal. I explained what was going on and also explained I was dismayed at the attitude of the Christian who asked me to leave. I was allowed to stay. When someone tries to preach to me, it now gets tuned out..

[hellonorman]

Is linux after 25 years now a religion? I guess I was misled by the thread name.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... inux&hl=en

------------------------------------------------------------------
If you believe in him, life is everlasting. So all the trying experiences are what teaches you to be better in your next physical life if there is one. Deja vu. So begs the question, if you do not believe in Christianity, therefore you do not exist? I believe in altruism and not all the fancy adornments of the existing church hierarchy. All the money that spent on fancy cathedrals, should instead should be put into homes and hospitals for the less fortunate. I remember being downtown Houston waiting for the bus. My particular bus line had problems that day. After almost two hours I decided to sit down to wait for the bus. on the soft lawn of that particular affluent Baptist church I was asked to leave as if I was some kind of criminal. I explained what was going on and also explained I was dismayed at the attitude of the Christian who asked me to leave. I was allowed to stay. When someone tries to preach to me, it now gets tuned out..

I was only interested in the logic of how he came to believe he was being kept safe on the roads due to his faith. I don't propose that whether his logic does or does not make sense is proof of whether God exists.

[eddie]

It's cool. I was just being tongue in cheek.