Moderators: snarkout, Patrick, dann
What the **** is Novell doing?!?!?!?The entire Evolution development team (mostly based in India) seems to be dissolved, with only one maintainer left to keep the product breathing (after all, there are existing Novell customers); Hula development is said to be cut completely; Mono development is also seriously affected;
I fully agree with that, I know a whole bunch of people here in Denmark who uses SUSE, when SUSE says "the best engineered Linux" I don't think they are that far off, because I really think SUSE, and especially version 10, is VERY VERY GOODSnarkout wrote:That being said, since they have completely open sourced SuSE, if there's a big enough community surrounding the distro, and I believe there is, it will survive regardless of what the big N does.
Thanks for the link Dann, that cooled me down, because after reading that article on Linux Today I was shocked because I really did like what Novell has been doing and I strongly believe that they intentions are good, also being a huge fan of SUSE Linux also made me nerviousdann wrote:http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,18 ... X1K0000594
I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. Yeah, they are making some cutbacks and reshuffling, but I don't think this spells doom and gloom for Novell or Desktop Linux. Those projects that developers have been pulled away from have a larger community which will continue the project. Who knows, perhaps as these projects mature and require more support Novell will re-shuffle more resources back their way.
Just as a little praise to ya, I really liked the sentence you threw out like "if you're gonna ship something as broken as GNOME", good one man.dann wrote:Yes, I am still using KDE.
I think, with Novell focusing on Gnome, wasn't that a result of them partnering with some of the Novell developers and acquiring technologies like Mono and Evolution before acquiring SuSE?
Still I have often wondered that myself and mentioned this to Nat Friedman and Aron Siego when we spoke with them. SuSE has long had roots in KDE.
Having used KDE for a solid three weeks or so, I find that my opinion has changed. I'm still trying to get used to some of the things but the DE is not as intrusive as I once thought it was. Maybe I'll try it out on some lower end systems.
Having used KDE I do think I prefer it over Gnome; at least where Gnome is today. I find Gnome is a bit too broken or incomplete. I don't like how Nautilus takes over the entire system. I find gstreamer, while and awesome technology, not complete enough and a bit buggy. I do think that a major focus for any Windowmanager/DE should be the configuration tools and gconf is sorely lacking.
DING DING DING!I do think that a major focus for any Windowmanager/DE should be the configuration tools and gconf is sorely lacking.
And that is the reason I am using KDE or another WM/DE on Ubuntu; because Gnome is just to painful. Yeah, I know there is the kubuntu project, but most people hear of Ubuntu, and when they boot this up they start with Gnome. Sure it looks clean and somewhat integrated; but when you really get into it; it's just an annoyance to use.Tsuroerusu wrote: Just as a little praise to ya, I really liked the sentence you threw out like "if you're gonna ship something as broken as GNOME", good one man.
Freedesktop.org aside, I was kind of hoping SuSE would have put more influence out there to have GTK apps integrate a little better in KDE. Don't get me wrong, I never have a problem running gtk apps within any WM/DE; it's just that you can really tell it's a gtk app.Tsuroerusu wrote: Novell did aquire Ximian before they went for SUSE yes, but something that strikes me is that Qt apps tend to fit very well into KDE and GTK apps, well Azureus actually can look pretty decent, tend to fit best in GNOME.
SUSE's configuration tool YaST is a Qt app, and wouldn't it look a little odd to have a huge set of high quality Qt mangement tools and try to intergrate that into a GNOME environment? Of course if you follow the freedesktop.org specs. (Which Seigo also pointed out) stuff do look better when getting mixed, but still...
I'm right there with you on kmplayer. That and the iffy flash support I have had in KDE have kept it from being my main web browser. I think Konqueror is a fantastic file browser and has great potential for the web; but it lacks some stuff I am used to in Firefox. Still, kudos to the Konqueror developers, they are doing a fantastic job.Tsuroerusu wrote: Also, Seigo mentioned KMPlayer and Kaffine. Speaking of broken technology I HATE KMPlayer, I just can't stand it, it's clunky and just pisses me off a lot sometimes.
I really hope this changes, or evolves into something really good. I hear a lot of usability comments these days saying "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" and that developers should "make the best choice possible" for the end user. And while I agree to a point with this, a distro like Ubuntu aims for desktop users and being friendly at all levels, it should not hinder me from making the changes I want to make.Snarkout wrote: DING DING DING!
Much of the UI of gnome is very appealing. It's when you start trying to make it behave the way *you* want it you run into problems - the gnome "preferences" are some of the worst I have ever seen -- they either offer nearly no configuration options, or have buried stuff in places it doesn't belong.
Something is just fail to understand all the time is the mega hype about Ubuntu, what is so great about it? It's just Debian with newer stuff, it's pretty much Debian unstable, and maybe a little polished but still, I really don't see what the big deal is. Also Kubuntu is probably one of the distros that has pissed me off the most because I just couldn't get default KDE settings.dann wrote:And that is the reason I am using KDE or another WM/DE on Ubuntu; because Gnome is just to painful. Yeah, I know there is the kubuntu project, but most people hear of Ubuntu, and when they boot this up they start with Gnome. Sure it looks clean and somewhat integrated; but when you really get into it; it's just an annoyance to use.
Actually, when I fired up Totem for the first time, in SUSE 10, it actually looked very KDE-ish, had some KDE icons in the menus, the widget colors and all that good stuff, the only thing was the font size which I got down by setting the font size .gtkrc and .gtkrc-2.0dann wrote:Freedesktop.org aside, I was kind of hoping SuSE would have put more influence out there to have GTK apps integrate a little better in KDE. Don't get me wrong, I never have a problem running gtk apps within any WM/DE; it's just that you can really tell it's a gtk app.
Flash works fine in my Konqueror browser, it actually seems a little speedier than Firefox IMHO. One thing I like about Konqueror is thatit passed the Acid2 test which is great, we all know that standards are important, it would seem the KDE developers really has taken this very seriously.dann wrote:I'm right there with you on kmplayer. That and the iffy flash support I have had in KDE have kept it from being my main web browser. I think Konqueror is a fantastic file browser and has great potential for the web; but it lacks some stuff I am used to in Firefox. Still, kudos to the Konqueror developers, they are doing a fantastic job.
Good point Pat, good point. So far what I've seen of KDE 3.5 looks very cool, Kopete should now be able to do webcam conversations over MSN Messenger, which has been a barrier to entry for a friend of mine because he uses Linux but wants to put it on his girlfriend's PC, you know 16 year old chicks, they SMS and crab all the time, drives me nuts!Patrick wrote:It's funny how the pendulum swings back in favor of KDE. I remember when Novell bought Suse (right after buying Ximian) and you heard these stories that Gnome would become the default linux desktop. It seems like the momemtum is swinging back in KDE's favor. 3.5 is coming very soon and the major re-write promised for 4.0 is right around the corner. Based on our conversation with Aaron Seigo and what others involved in KDE project have said it's going to be a huge leap. I know I'm really looking forward to seeing what they've come up with.
I'm not saying flash does not work in Konqueror; but I have had more problems with it than in Firefox. That's just my limited experience.Tsuroerusu wrote:
Flash works fine in my Konqueror browser, it actually seems a little speedier than Firefox IMHO. One thing I like about Konqueror is thatit passed the Acid2 test which is great, we all know that standards are important, it would seem the KDE developers really has taken this very seriously.
One thing that annoys me about Firefox is the startup time, it takes about three and a half seconds and yet it frustrates me a lot now and then, that's why I've been using Konqueror a lot lately, it just snaps when you click the icon or the menu entry.
