An "Apache" for the Linux desktop?

[Tsuroerusu]

So far it seems that some businesses are interested in Linux, but all M$' FUD keeps them away and tells them that nothing about Linux is compelling. I think that in order to succeed, the Linux desktop needs an "Apache"-style killer app, but I have no idea what that could be because everything that Linux probably will do on the desktop in the next two years, Apple is doing today, which is kind of depressing when you think about it, because then we can never really make Linux more compelling than Mac OS X to the average home user because of the simple fact that Linux is always "behind" on the desktop in terms of usability, software integration, desktop integration, and lots of other stuff.

Now I happen to think that Linux and BSD is better than Mac (I sometimes refer to Darwin, the BSD system underneath OS X, as the "victim of rape" of the BSDs ) I love KDE, and I like the stability, performance and the applications, but it's just so darn hard convincing anybody who's not familiar with UNIX that a Linux desktop is better.

[CptnObvious999]

I disagree that Mac will always be ahead of Linux. For one linux is free and open source and it runs on just about anything. IMO the only thing Mac's have over linux is flashy graphics. In terms of usability I'd say they are almost tied. Sure that fade in looks pretty but does it really help usability? no not really. They have dumbed down a bunch of apps but when my mom tried to use it she couldn't figure out how to close a window with Linux she could easily (I'm also not a big fan of the metal and jelly beans style). There are a lot of options with Linux but they should be much clearer labeled and ordered more logically with KDE4. As far as integration thats hard for opensource because of all the choice, you don't make everyone use this certain library/API. KDE4 will hopefully fix this but it is easier for Apple however I would rather have choice.

[Wally Balljacker]

I think OS X is farther along in terms of usability, support from commercial game companies, and eye candy today, but by the very nature of open source, KDE and GNOME will eventually surpass OS X. Right now, we're still playing catch up, but I believe it's only a matter of time before Linux and open source software starts leading the way on the desktop. It's inevitable.

[Tsuroerusu]

I disagree that Mac will always be ahead of Linux.

So far Beagle hasn't even reached a 1.0 release, Apple's Spotlight has have had a bunch of revisions so far.

For one linux is free and open source and it runs on just about anything.

Well, no one cares about that except for us geeks who like to look at PowerPC, POWER, Sparc, UltraSPARC and stuff like that, but my mum doesn't care.

IMO the only thing Mac's have over linux is flashy graphics. In terms of usability I'd say they are almost tied. Sure that fade in looks pretty but does it really help usability? no not really.

Well, what I think Apple has going for it is the ease of application installation, if you look at the difference between distros I just don't see one big-ass unified Linux binary format, the difference between distros are just too big, and a lot of distros have different goals and ideologies. Also, Apple has a lot of stuff like iMovie, iDVD, iTunes.... that people like to use, Linux's support for video editing is so poor that I almost get tears in my eyes when I look at it, because IMHO, it should have been much more reliable by now. When I'm suggesting that OS X might be ahead of Linux is because I know that non-techie people can use it, almost everytime I've installed Linux (Be it Ubuntu, Mandriva, SUSE, Fedora or Mepis) some problem always comes up, if it's not the networking being screwed up by itself, and sometimes it just stoppped working on fully supported hardware, or people not being able to install some software they need, or a driver missing for a new scanner or printer they bought......... Apple may limit people's choice, but let's face the hard facts, inexperienced users can actually use thier operating system without that much hastle, and on Linux there are still these small issues which I find minor, especially on the application installation thing, but it's so damn hard to educate Windows users in the fact that they should use their package manager and not go to the project's website and download a program with an installer and install it like that, Linux is not Windows, on Linux you use package managers, but of course that makes no sense at all.

They have dumbed down a bunch of apps but when my mom tried to use it she couldn't figure out how to close a window with Linux she could easily (I'm also not a big fan of the metal and jelly beans style).

I agree with that, I don't find that metally themeing that attractive either, and having the minimize, maximize and quit buttons on the left would drive me crazy.

There are a lot of options with Linux but they should be much clearer labeled and ordered more logically with KDE4.

Yeah, KDE needs to clean it's control center up a bit and put more options in an "advanced", but never taking them out, just put them a little to the side, not much, but ust a little.

As far as integration thats hard for opensource because of all the choice, you don't make everyone use this certain library/API.

Well, that is sometimes a barrier too, because people wonder why a GNOME application can look so dramatically different, which can also confuse them to believe that something is wrong.

KDE4 will hopefully fix this but it is easier for Apple however I would rather have choice.

Well, I want choice too, but any inexperienced computer user could care less about what they get by default, and what choice of apps, window managers, desktops and stuff they have, because it's not important to them.



Just to emphesize on my comments, I am by no means promoting Apple, I'm just trying to discuss our issue and why Dell would be willing to resell OSX and not Linux as a preinstalled OS.

[Gomer_X]

I think multiple virtual desktops on Linux is the killer app for the desktop.

There's no reason it can't be done on Windows or the Mac, but Linux has it and has had it for a long time. Every time I hear someone talking about Expose on the Mac, I think "why do I need this when I have multiple desktops?"
I think Microsoft doesn't even really care. They're convinced their way is best, and the users better like it.

As far as Apple being ahead, I don't think that's true. They just copy other people's stuff and pretend they did it first. There's no real reason Linux can't innovate on the desktop.

[Judland]

There's no real reason Linux can't innovate on the desktop.

There isn't. It's all marketing.... Marketing, marketing, marketing. Most people believe what the T.V. and billboards tell them to believe.

[Jza]

I found the KDE desktop going that way, they are already have a lot of web-driven desktop software. By that I mean software that use webservices like XML-RPC from the desktop to the actual software.

The use of social networks like downloading the latest kde-look.org wallpaper or the latest wikipedia content directly into your program. This is what I feel the desktop will become and more and more you will be well dependant on this services.

Linux can take a lot of advantages however the developers for linux usually port it to windows thats why it will never have an edge. That is unfortunately the nature of opensource. Then again big software packages like Evolution are far from being on Windows.

Making a lot of open source Windows users keep MS Office and Outlook.

[Tsuroerusu]

Then again big software packages like Evolution are far from being on Windows.

Wrong, check this out: http://evolution-win32.sourceforge.net/
I've also heard that Novell is working on their own port.

[Jza]

I do know there is a project, the will is there. But that project has been there for a long while and still has gone nowhere.

[Tsuroerusu]

I do know there is a project, the will is there. But that project has been there for a long while and still has gone nowhere.

Nat Friedman made the announcement on his blog a year ago (Slashdot: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?si ... 31&tid=106) that Novell would be porting Evolution to Windows, hmmmm, guess they got busy with something else.

[Jza]

Yes also Miguel always talks about the pain stories that building evolution specially on the final stages. They used technology like CORBA for messaging and other rather very old'school Unix programing method.

I am sure evolution's code has been optimized still some things like they can't make evolution scripting be in any other language than C (no perl/python/ruby).

I don't think evolution for windows be anytime soon which goes back to my original post that large software can't be ported as inmediate as other ones like GAIM.

[Tsuroerusu]

I don't think evolution for windows be anytime soon which goes back to my original post that large software can't be ported as inmediate as other ones like GAIM.

Yeah I agree, Evolution is quite a big program, it's an Outlook clone and Outlook is also a pretty big program.

The KDE guys has said that with KDE4 they will be porting Konqueror and Kontact to Windows.

[Jza]

KDE already g0t kde-pim p0rted t0 winbugs. Y0u can even read an article 0n TUX magazine ab0ut it.

[thetza]

I think that in order to succeed, the Linux desktop needs an "Apache"-style killer app

The problem is that all the killer apps are ported over to proprietary operating systems. Think about it: Firefox and Konqueror should have been the killer apps which gave Linux and free software the edge. If these two programs weren't ported to proprietary platforms, OSX and Windows wouldn't even have a decent browser. Whats worse is that the killer apps like photoshop stay on windows and OSX because the freedom to port photoshop to a free platform is specifically denied in the license. Thats why I say we should stop porting to proprietary platforms.

I sometimes refer to Darwin, the BSD system underneath OS X, as the "victim of rape" of the BSDs

LOL, that made my day.