Lxer Interview

[johnnywtllts]

Just finished listening to the show on my way in to work - great guests and great interview, Thanks. I've added Lxer to my feeds and am looking forward to checking it out more.

Great pro-Linux anti M$ monopoly stuff. What about Dave's? comment that Firefox is the most important development for the expansion of Linux? - any thoughts?

[Patrick]

What about Dave's? comment that Firefox is the most important development for the expansion of Linux? - any thoughts?

To a certain degree I agree with Dave. Firefox has opened a low of eyes to F/OSS applications. To a lesser degree these apps have done the same:
OpenOffice
Thunderbird
Audacity
MythTV
GIMP
VLC
Mplayer
NVU

Get those windows user hooked on these great apps and then switch the OS run under their feet. The only thing they'll notice is that they won't have to constantly reboot and everything will run more stable. Plus they won't have to constantly run anti-virus, anti-spyware and defragmentation software.

[johnnywtllts]

Cool deal Pat.

I thought though that he was making the argument that a totally IE dominated web would kill Apache and in the long run kill Linux on the web (I didn't totally grasp it, but I thought that's what he was saying).

[Gomer_X]

Cool deal Pat.

I thought though that he was making the argument that a totally IE dominated web would kill Apache and in the long run kill Linux on the web (I didn't totally grasp it, but I thought that's what he was saying).

That's what I heard. Having Firefox and other standards compliant browsers means Microsoft can not dominate the internet. If IE was completely dominant, Microsoft could continue to introduce IE "features" that aren't in the standards, and apache would constantly be playing catch up (the old "embrace and extend"). There would be a demand for Microsoft servers, since they would always be up to date.

OpenOffice? Microsoft formats are the standard, and OO is just barely starting to have an impact.

Thunderbird? Microsoft Outlook has made HTML based E-mail common, which breaks standards. Linux is just playing catch up.

Audacity, Gimp, VLC, Mplayer? Still primarily promote proprietary standards, which we have no control over.

[Patrick]

OpenOffice? Microsoft formats are the standard, and OO is just barely starting to have an impact.

Yes but OO is a start. F/OSS shouldn't just mimic M$. It must offer features that make it more appealing than the M$ option. I've got my wife using OO just for the export to pdf function alone. There needs to be more of that in all F/OSS applications.

Thunderbird? Microsoft Outlook has made HTML based E-mail common, which breaks standards. Linux is just playing catch up.

Outlook is a such a piece of sh|t! The only reason people still use is it because it 'free' and comes with the OS. Anything besides outlook is a better choice. Thunderbird is a nice mail app. Its become my default mail client.

Audacity, Gimp, VLC, Mplayer? Still primarily promote proprietary standards, which we have no control over.

Promote is a little harsh. Accomodate is a little more appropriate. How is GIMP proprietary? VLC, Mplayer and Audacity can use a variety of codecs including the Free and not Free. Yes, in a perfect world everyone would drop non-free codecs in lieu of the Free ones. Unfortunately change is not instant. It WILL occur, just not overnight. If you want ogg to replace MP3 you should buy players that can handle ogg. Let people know what the benefits of ogg are. It's Free and it sounds better than MP3!

We can be whiney little cry babies about it or we can do something about it. Let's get off of our collective asses and make a difference. Promote F/OSS software to everyone you know.

[jsusanka]

I just want to say that was a great show too. The guests were excellent and lxer has become my main news site next to groklaw.

never really liked slashdot - just too many weenies on it - digg is okay but it just doesn't float my boat. I prefer newsforge over slashdot.

Yes but OO is a start. F/OSS shouldn't just mimic M$. It must offer features that make it more appealing than the M$ option. I've got my wife using OO just for the export to pdf function alone. There needs to be more of that in all F/OSS applications.

This is one reason why I think the ODF is so big and why I am really behind it 100%. If I get one more resume place ask for doc format I am going to go ballistic. I create in pdf and if that isn't fricken good enough for them well that is their problem because I am not going to keep up on office just to do a resume. ODF should take care of this problem. No more fricken .doc format. So go ODF.

I also always knew about the delay - abramoff - gates link I just wondered why the press never made more of a stink about it. Shows you how the media is being controlled - thank goodness for places like lxer. Bet ya if a democrat was getting blow jobs in the oval office we would hear all about it and impeach the guy - oh nevermind that was another time.

the partisanship that bush talks about is good as long as you see things the republican way. anyway I am kind of disgusted with our countries leadership and to me it all started when they let microsoft go. In a way 911 was the best thing for bush because he just uses that to push his own agenda - remember we are at war.

anyway I am done thanks for listening and this was a great show.

fluxbox rocks!!

[Tsuroerusu]

Yes but OO is a start. F/OSS shouldn't just mimic M$. It must offer features that make it more appealing than the M$ option. I've got my wife using OO just for the export to pdf function alone. There needs to be more of that in all F/OSS applications.

The problem is that it's so hard to convince people who've used Microsoft Office for years, to switch because they don't want to, or don't have the time, to start learning how to do formulas and stuff in OpenOffice, of course I know it's not difficult, but I doubt I can get my aunt to run Linux and OpenOffice on a new PC that I'm supposed to be building for her because she use Windows and Microsoft Office at work, it's just sad, once you're locked in, you're surely locked in. Also, OpenOffice is at a point between Microsoft Office 2000 and 2002, if do a comparison, I think a lot of people who don't give a crap about a better operating system, or closed proprietary formats will be willing to pay for Microsoft Office and just accept the consequences of doing so. It's making me sick of how much Microsoft is dominant here in Denmark, I just saw a survey that only 2% of the public sector is using any free- and open source software at all!!!!!
And also, all Microsoft's hype about them creating an open format is getting eaten up by every office dickhead in the country, why is it that Microsoft is so good at brainwashing people?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

Outlook is a such a piece of sh|t! The only reason people still use is it because it 'free' and comes with the OS. Anything besides outlook is a better choice. Thunderbird is a nice mail app. Its become my default mail client.

I'm sure you're referring to Outlook Express, you know the virus catching email client that comes with Windows, Outlook is the big-ass bloated program that's part of Microsoft Office. But your description is quite correct, also Outlook jamps all your data into a single .pst file which again is a proprietary Microsoft format, pretty dumb since it's the user's email and not Microsoft's and they have no right to lock it up and stash it away, but you know, most people who use Outlook for corporate use don't give a shit.

It WILL occur, just not overnight. If you want ogg to replace MP3 you should buy players that can handle ogg. Let people know what the benefits of ogg are. It's Free and it sounds better than MP3!

I seriously doubt that people that have been using mp3 for years will switch to OGG just because it's an open format, most people don't care, I'm sad to say.

Let's get off of our collective asses and make a difference. Promote F/OSS software to everyone you know.

The only problem is that most of the people I know just don't want to switch, either because they have a program that locks them into Windows, either it's an app for work or it's a game or future games, or that they don't want to take the time to learn how to use OpenOffice.

Sorry that I'm being such a pessimist, but I just described the world I see everyday, I don't think it changes until the day Microsoft disappears forever, but then Apple might take over you know, and then it's another set of decades of a proprietary dominated world, maybe we'll be able to sit back and relax and watch our children enjoy a better world (Not just on this issue of software, but also regarding peace and all that stuff that's missing from the world today) when we get to heaven.

[Patrick]

the partisanship that bush talks about is good as long as you see things the republican way. anyway I am kind of disgusted with our countries leadership and to me it all started when they let microsoft go. In a way 911 was the best thing for bush because he just uses that to push his own agenda - remember we are at war.

Just remember all politicians are a$$holes!! There's a story floating around today that the Democrats are involved with Abramoff as well. The system needs to be reformed. The big problem is the vast majority of politicians are lawyers. What's scary is that some people actually believe the levees in New Orleans were blown up by the government and 911 was a total hoax. To those people I say get your heads out of your a$$es! I sometimes listen to Coast 2 Coast AM purely for entertainment value but some people actually believe the crack pot guests. Maybe I should be making tinfoil hats myself?

[snarkout]

ART BELL FOR PREZ!!!!

[Patrick]

The problem is that it's so hard to convince people who've used Microsoft Office for years, to switch because they don't want to, or don't have the time, to start learning .....

You have to convince them of the benefits of using OO. It's cheaper, it's Free and supports M$ formats. Extremists say that it shouldn't support closed formats. To them I say we need to wean the addicts off the poison!

most people who use Outlook for corporate use don't give a shat.

Anyone in the corporate world who pushes Outlook should be fired immediately! They're bringing in one of the worst security vulnerabilities into the IT infrastructure.

I seriously doubt that people that have been using mp3 for years will switch to OGG just because it's an open format, most people don't care, I'm sad to say.

I disagree. New formats will be better and people will migrate to them. The challenge is too stop the closed DRM enabled ones and promote the Free and open ones.

The only problem is that most of the people I know just don't want to switch, either because they have a program that locks them into Windows, either it's an app for work or it's a game or future games, or that they don't want to take the time to learn how to use OpenOffice.

If they want to hand M$ $199 every 2 years that's their choice. I choose otherwise. Games is a big weakness for linux. The so-called final frontier.

Sorry that I'm being such a pessimist, but I just described the world I see everyday, I don't think it changes until the day Microsoft disappears forever

You're still young. I was very pessimistic at your age. Your outlook will improve quite a bit when you find a nice girl!
Seriously though, should we just roll over and give up?! Hell no. I don't see M$ being broken up. I see them slowly whittling away in different areas. The key is to get linux into education and to teach kids there's a better way. They are the future.

[Patrick]

ART BELL FOR PREZ!!!!

I don't think he's available. His wife just died. I like C2C but man it's out there!

[snarkout]

Well, I was kidding, of course. Art Bell is a kook - I used to be forced to listen to his stuff 10 years ago while working graveyard. I can't imagine he's any saner now than he was back then.

[Tsuroerusu]

You have to convince them of the benefits of using OO. It's cheaper, it's Free and supports M$ formats. Extremists say that it shouldn't support closed formats. To them I say we need to wean the addicts off the poison!

Well, if my mum went into a store and bought a computer today and got "lucky" and it had Microsoft Office included, she would hold on to it, because she know how to use PowerPoint fairly well, and the benefits of OpenOffice that you and I value a lot, she don't care about, even the fact that OpenOffice is free doesn't matter to a lot of people, especially to people who're used to Microsoft Office, and uses it at work, they want the stuff they already know about. For example I've tried getting a few of my friends to use OpenOffice, but they just replaced it with a pirated copy of Microsoft Office.

Anyone in the corporate world who pushes Outlook should be fired immediately! They're bringing in one of the worst security vulnerabilities into the IT infrastructure.

Hehe well, my entire school uses Exchange servers, the web version of Outlook and Outlook for the teachers. And you don't want to see some of the bigger places here in Denmark, it would make you puke in seconds.

I disagree. New formats will be better and people will migrate to them. The challenge is too stop the closed DRM enabled ones and promote the Free and open ones.

Well, people know mp3 so well and it's so widely used, OGG isn't really supported 100% in portable players yet and mp3 is pretty darn close to it, and if they have a huge music collection it's a big pain and they don't see ANY sort of advantage in converting them to OGG, and they would loose a lot of sound quality in that process as well. I'm sure as DRM gets more widely implemented people will start to get annoyed by it, but people who aren't savy, you know the average user of technology out there, just don't care because they don't know how frustrating DRM is, people like my mum who likes to record stuff from the television (She's still using VHS, because she knows how to use it, and she has for at least 15 years) will surely be annoyed by DRM when the move to digital TV gets forced onto the viewers, but still people who aren't annoyed by DRM won't complain about it, and the people that do are so few in numbers that it won't make a difference, I havn't heard of a single complain to the "consumer advocates" (The danish government has a such organization) about iTunes and not being able to put the music on a non-iPod player.

If they want to hand M$ $199 every 2 years that's their choice. I choose otherwise. Games is a big weakness for linux. The so-called final frontier.

A lot of the people I know would rather pay M$ than needing to spend the time to learn to use something else, ridiculous right? But it's the sad truth.
A way to solve the gaming issue is to get consoles more wide spread, I think that it will be a long hard road until we see Half-Life 2 and The Sims ported to Linux, because those games are already written for DirectX and I doubt Valve will be porting the game they spend over 20 million dollars developing, to Linux any time soon, because they don't see the market. Also another thing that is about PC gaming is all these little crappy utilities that the gaming addicts use, Ventrilo is one of these shitty voice chat apps they use, not available for Linux.

You're still young. I was very pessimistic at your age. Your outlook will improve quite a bit when you find a nice girl!

Yeah I know, I'm just in a bad mood today because I really don't want to give Windows to my aunt on the brand new PC I'm preparing to build for her, because I know she's gonna have problems and she's gonna be shocked at how much she needs to learn about security, and even with Microsoft Office there's a huge learning curve, because she's used to Microsoft Office 7.0, do you know how old that is? I think it's the the predecessor of Office 97!!!!!!!

Seriously though, should we just roll over and give up?! Hell no. I don't see M$ being broken up. I see them slowly whittling away in different areas.

Yeah probably, but how do we convince a lot of Windows users to switch to Linux rather than upgrading to Vista? I think the majority will upgrade because they already know Microsoft, even though they probably will get shocked at how much the interface has changed. Also a thing I know that people get annoyed by is the non-integrative nature between KDE and GNOME apps, I hate the fact that Firefox uses the GTK file dialog when I use KDE, the Gimp is also a victim to this. I just hope KDE 4.0 will be like a mesias that will come and clear all this mess up in one way or another.
And by the way, I doubt I will be running into a sweet girl any time soon, I don't know why, but "computer geeks" are seen as non-social, closed to the world outside, boring, and neardy people, and often the direct opposite is the case, if the Linux community wasn't social I doubt the collaboration we have seen would have had so much success.

The key is to get linux into education and to teach kids there's a better way. They are the future.

Well how do you do that when the schools already have invested hugely in Microsoft solutions are locked-in to it? My first school spent, a few months before I gradutated, about 10.000 dollars on new machines and about 8000 of that money was spent on Microsoft licenses alone! Another problem here in Denmark is that they don't have the option of buying anything else, Microsoft runs a huge monopoly on a segment of the market that clearly hurts future generations.

[Jza]

OpenOffice? Microsoft formats are the standard, and OO is just barely starting to have an impact.

Thunderbird? Microsoft Outlook has made HTML based E-mail common, which breaks standards. Linux is just playing catch up.

Audacity, Gimp, VLC, Mplayer? Still primarily promote proprietary standards, which we have no control over.

I do not think so, OpenOffice.org has OpenDocument format which is is an openstandard. M$ is commercial(industry) standard which is basically not relevant for the porpouse of real usage. With this I mean hability to integrate to other systems. OOo uses XML which is a standard as opposed to the binary Windows use or their proprietary schema XML.

Audacity Gimp have maybe proprietary standards since there isnt a standard for their file format really. Gimp uses xcf which is not the same as PNG or JPEG because xcf is not a rasterized image as JPEG or PNG, then again I most recognize that PNG has the hability to be saved as layers you can see this in Fireworks from macromedia.

Audacity uses aup but here there is no 'rasterized' audio version, wav is owned by M$, Mp3 is proprietary and OGG is the best open support so at least it comes out of the box (u need LAME for mp3).

VLC well it just a player so no point here talking about producing formats the only bad thing is that the theora or OGM (ogg media) are not so high on the rank. But Xvid and H.262 are all played.

[Jza]

The problem is that it's so hard to convince people who've used Microsoft Office for years, to switch because they don't want to, or don't have the time, to start learning how to do formulas and stuff in OpenOffice, of course I know it's not difficult, but I doubt I can get my aunt to run Linux and OpenOffice on a new PC that I'm supposed to be building for her because she use Windows and Microsoft Office at work, it's just sad, once you're locked in, you're surely locked in.

How you talk a crack addict out of crack??