Lxer Interview

[shopRatt]

Patrick wrote: "The key is to get linux into education and to teach kids there's a better way. They are the future."

Agreed. I think that cash-strapped school districts are going to have to start giving Linux a hard look. My school district has tried to get a millage passed several times, but the people vote it down becase they feel they are already taxed enough. Schools will have to look at the bottom line and maybe Linux will be brought in to save some $$$. If they start using *nix in elementary school, they will be more likely to use it as adults. If so, my two kids will have a head start.

[Tsuroerusu]

How you talk a crack addict out of crack??

Exactly, you can't dude, I'm telling ya. Once you're locked in to Windows or Microsoft's proprietary stuff, you're seriously locked in.

[CptnObvious999]

Yeah schools *NEED* Linux. Would save them so much money its not even funny. My whole school couldn't turn on any computers on Friday, and they're willing to pay money for this crap? I thought teachers were supposed to be smarter than the students

[Tsuroerusu]

Yeah schools *NEED* Linux.

A lot of schools here in Denmark, actually use special software that's ONLY available for Windows, and it's not something that you and I can buy, it is actually specially made for the schools, again there, total lock-in and domination by Bill Gates.

Would save them so much money its not even funny. My whole school couldn't turn on any computers on Friday, and they're willing to pay money for this crap? I thought teachers were supposed to be smarter than the students

Yeah no kidding man, but pretty much everyone who could do anything about this believes in Microsoft's "Get The Facts" propaganda, so we run into a big barrier right there.

[Jza]

Yeah schools *NEED* Linux.

A lot of schools here in Denmark, actually use special software that's ONLY available for Windows, and it's not something that you and I can buy, it is actually specially made for the schools, again there, total lock-in and domination by Bill Gates.

Well if there is will it can be ported to Linux and GTK. Specially if you have the Source Code.

[Tsuroerusu]

Well if there is will it can be ported to Linux and GTK. Specially if you have the Source Code.

The way the systems here in Denmark work with what regards to IT is a little hard to explain, but porting those apps to Linux are not possible because there aren't enough volume for it to happen and those that could make it happen don't use Linux.

[Jza]

Since all this things are political, I think this is similar to people with disabilities. They are a minority and yet they need special tools for their needs. I wonder if people can start asking what are you doing to ease the digital monoculture. If this gets political you can actually get people porting their software to OS-Agnostic platforms.

This is important since there are already presedents like in Brazil where the telecentros (e-Government kiosks) run completely on Debina-Gnome. Extremadura and yada yada yada. If you say your moving efforts are detterred by their software. Then you make a case for a migration regardless of volume.

[Gomer_X]

OpenOffice? Microsoft formats are the standard, and OO is just barely starting to have an impact.

Thunderbird? Microsoft Outlook has made HTML based E-mail common, which breaks standards. Linux is just playing catch up.

Audacity, Gimp, VLC, Mplayer? Still primarily promote proprietary standards, which we have no control over.

I do not think so, OpenOffice.org has OpenDocument format which is is an openstandard. M$ is commercial(industry) standard which is basically not relevant for the porpouse of real usage. With this I mean hability to integrate to other systems. OOo uses XML which is a standard as opposed to the binary Windows use or their proprietary schema XML.

To bring this back to the point, Firefox is an important app because it kept Internet Explorer from dominating the browser market, and allowed an open standard to dominate.

OpenOffice uses an open format. Great. Microsoft Office formats are already THE standard. OpenOffice can do nothing to change that.

HTML and CSS are open standards on the web. Firefox, Mozilla, Opera, etcetera use and conform to the open standard. Microsoft could go off and make their own standard for the web, but no one would care. There will never be a "Microsoft Office" of the web because the open standard is already too ubiquitous. Microsoft can't control the web, they can't establish their own proprietary standards.

I never said other software doesn't use open standards. Offering open alternatives is not the point. Crushing closed formats is. Point me to one Linux application that has promoted an open standard to the exclusion of all other standards. Open source browsers are the only apps that have done so. All these other programs are great, but they have not pushed an open standard to complete dominance. The dominance of open standards on the web has allowed Apache to take over the internet.

That's the point. It's a difficult one to understand, but it's important. Open standards don't matter unless they push proprietary standards out of the way. I think that's the point the LXer guys were making in the interview.

[Jza]

OpenOffice uses an open format. Great. Microsoft Office formats are already THE standard. OpenOffice can do nothing to change that. .

Well we can look at the BECTRA report for example where they push standards in documentation and they suggest TXT, CSV, ODT, and NO M$ file format.

I will argue that Ipod is the standard of mp3 players, even if mp3 player exist before, same thing with Google for search. But is clear they werent the first ones and they just became the standard.

M$ is not the standard for documents on the web, I will assure that most downloadable documents are published as PDF rather than M$ word. For that reason, I will divide the categories of documents into editable documents and not editable documents (to a degree since XForms in PDF have make PDF editable).

OpenDocument is a new format in the sense that it has 2-3 yrs old in which 2 was in constant development. So it is fair to say that M$ is percieved as a standartd today but not necesarily in the future.

Even M$ is changing their default file format to the XML format which also you enter in the argument that just because is named .doc doesn't mean is the same file format you are talking about.

M$ Word 97 can't be open in M$ Office XP even if both of them are .doc formats. This is because the actual fileformat binary is different.

Actually most people use OpenOffice.org to upgrade their fileformat, so saying that M$ is a standard well... is ridiculous since you hav to specify which version of the format.