Novell Linux Desktop Video

[Jza]

Novell showed their latest NLD which has a lot of effects thanks to all the development put on XGL, Cairo, 3D Desktop integration and effects that make the desktop faster.

http://www.linuxedge.org/?q=node/55

On the flip side we got hackers like federico mena talking about some of the bugs he has seen from Cairo which makes your screen take up to 2 seconds for redrawing the desktop:
http://primates.ximian.com/~federico/ne ... 02.html#03
and here is the bugzilla:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=314616

[Tsuroerusu]

Maybe Aaron Seigo was right, maybe Novell has done some XGL development behind the scenes, let's hope they will contribute that back to the community.

[Jza]

I think is up to the distros to package it, XGL project and this effects were looked a while ago. You can get some of this effects already, they are just doing the integration. IMO

Nat used to post a lot of this content-development but after he announced Evolution ported to windows he was quoted so much that it actually hurt novell since it's consider a market secret and I think M$ start some hostility against novell and Nat's blog was shut down to non-development post and just chat about his trips around the world.

http://www.nat.org/2005/january/#17-January-2005

[thetza]

mmmm..... meaningless GPU-cycle hogging eye candy.

[Jza]

mmmm..... meaningless GPU-cycle hogging eye candy.

Yep, exactly my point..
There will be a time when you need to buy a new computer to be able to run Gnome.
umm... where I heard this before Gnotel??

[Wally Balljacker]

mmmm..... meaningless GPU-cycle hogging eye candy.

Yep, exactly my point..
There will be a time when you need to buy a new computer to be able to run Gnome.
umm... where I heard this before Gnotel??

There's nothing wrong with eye candy. If you've got a nice graphics card, good amount of RAM, and a decent CPU, why not use it for something besides gaming? For those who can't buy a new machine every few years, there will always be Fluxbox, XFCE, IceWM, UDE, Blackbox, etc. This kinda stuff (eye candy) is good for Linux. We won't attract anyone to Linux with low-resource, ass ugly window managers.

[thetza]

mmmm..... meaningless GPU-cycle hogging eye candy.

Yep, exactly my point..
There will be a time when you need to buy a new computer to be able to run Gnome.
umm... where I heard this before Gnotel??

There's nothing wrong with eye candy. If you've got a nice graphics card, good amount of RAM, and a decent CPU, why not use it for something besides gaming? For those who can't buy a new machine every few years, there will always be Fluxbox, XFCE, IceWM, UDE, Blackbox, etc. This kinda stuff (eye candy) is good for Linux. We won't attract anyone to Linux with low-resource, ass ugly window managers.

1) It's not about attracting users, its about retaining users. You don't retain people with transparent wobbly 3d windows; computers are a means to an end. thus, you retain with functionality, security, user rights, etc.
2) You need to get out of the windows mentality that hardware goes obsolete every few years. Computers should last 5-10 years minimum.
3) Fluxbox/xfce/etc are not "windows managers for poor ass geeks with obsolete useless hardware".
4) By your logic, the only ones who will have the hardware to run the new generation of GNOME/KDE will be gamers; yet gamer do not switch in general since most popular games do not run well/at all on linux.

[Wally Balljacker]

Yep, exactly my point..
There will be a time when you need to buy a new computer to be able to run Gnome.
umm... where I heard this before Gnotel??

There's nothing wrong with eye candy. If you've got a nice graphics card, good amount of RAM, and a decent CPU, why not use it for something besides gaming? For those who can't buy a new machine every few years, there will always be Fluxbox, XFCE, IceWM, UDE, Blackbox, etc. This kinda stuff (eye candy) is good for Linux. We won't attract anyone to Linux with low-resource, ass ugly window managers.

1) It's not about attracting users, its about retaining users. You don't retain people with transparent wobbly 3d windows; computers are a means to an end. thus, you retain with functionality, security, user rights, etc.
2) You need to get out of the windows mentality that hardware goes obsolete every few years. Computers should last 5-10 years minimum.
3) Fluxbox/xfce/etc are not "windows managers for poor ass geeks with obsolete useless hardware".
4) By your logic, the only ones who will have the hardware to run the new generation of GNOME/KDE will be gamers; yet gamer do not switch in general since most popular games do not run well/at all on linux.

1.) Linux needs to attract new users. Old Unix hacks like you and Linc will always use the lightweight desktops anyway.
2.) Computers aren't obsolete after a few years. I just don't see the harm in GUI innovation. Processors are getting faster, and RAM is becoming cheaper and cheaper.
3.) Yes they are
4.) No, I just don't see why people with modern hardware can't use their unused resources for eye candy. If I had 1GB of RAM, and an AMD Athlon 64, I'd run all the eye candy I could.

[thetza]

There's nothing wrong with eye candy. If you've got a nice graphics card, good amount of RAM, and a decent CPU, why not use it for something besides gaming? For those who can't buy a new machine every few years, there will always be Fluxbox, XFCE, IceWM, UDE, Blackbox, etc. This kinda stuff (eye candy) is good for Linux. We won't attract anyone to Linux with low-resource, ass ugly window managers.

1) It's not about attracting users, its about retaining users. You don't retain people with transparent wobbly 3d windows; computers are a means to an end. thus, you retain with functionality, security, user rights, etc.
2) You need to get out of the windows mentality that hardware goes obsolete every few years. Computers should last 5-10 years minimum.
3) Fluxbox/xfce/etc are not "windows managers for poor ass geeks with obsolete useless hardware".
4) By your logic, the only ones who will have the hardware to run the new generation of GNOME/KDE will be gamers; yet gamer do not switch in general since most popular games do not run well/at all on linux.

1.) Linux needs to attract new users. Old Unix hacks like you and Linc will always use the lightweight desktops anyway.
2.) Computers aren't obsolete after a few years. I just don't see the harm in GUI innovation. Processors are getting faster, and RAM is becoming cheaper and cheaper.
3.) Yes they are
4.) No, I just don't see why people with modern hardware can't use their unused resources for eye candy. If I had 1GB of RAM, and an AMD Athlon 64, I'd run all the eye candy I could.

1) I'm not nearly as old as linc. how dare thee.
2) its not innovative though. its the same old 2d-window-on-top-of-other-window-click-the-little-icon gui that hasn't changed since the 80's. Its just prettier. And its imitating OS X.
3) no, they aren't!!
4) Many people still run windows me/98 on their pentium 2/3's.

[Tsuroerusu]

For christ sake guys! Why do you judge KDE4 on what GNOME does????

I just relistened to interview with Aaron Seigo and he mentions him sitting around with Zack Rusin and Zack saying (When he has the wobbly windows... running) "Aaron I, I, I can do all these cool things but none of them are useable! What can we do that would actually be useful?". What I think the KDE guys can do with the XGL stuff would be to have a new nature for SuperKaramba-like widgets, which now would be Plasma widgets, render them with the GPU and you can save CPU cycles.

Also, I have a Geforce4 graphics card, AMD Athlon 3200+ and 1 GB of RAM, come on, how much of that is used for running a KDE desktop (OK all of my RAM are because I use so many freaking programs) ??? Especially the Geforce4 card, I remember Linc mentioning that he has a 3 GHz Pentium4 machine, now, how many cycles does it take to run KDE on that sucker?

Why are so many of you bitching about eye-canady AND that Linux don't have more users?? Why is it that some people get like orgasms, when they see Mac OS X's visuals compared with Windows? Because it looks darn cool! We can have all the security that we can, we can have all the robustness, stability, and relieability in the world, but does it matter if the compeditors/enemies offers a better desktop, and user experience? And yes Fluxbox, Openbox, Black etc. etc. are for geeks, I doubt there are any usability experts behind those window managers.

[CptnObvious999]

I think KDE4 will be able to run on at least half the resources Vista will take. You will be able to turn off a lot (if not all) the effects if you need. At the rate graphics cards keep improving it would be a crime not to use it to its full potential. Also Fluxbox,XFCE,IceWM,Enlightenment and a bunch of others will still be available. If you want it to be very usuable and easy then you will have to pay out a little for better hardware. Chances are you can find a lot of decent parts on eBay for pretty cheap that will be able to run KDE4. Linux will never leave old computers behind without an uptodate window manager so there is nothing to worry about.

[Tsuroerusu]

I think KDE4 will be able to run on at least half the resources Vista will take.

If not less, if the Qt4 move is gonna make as big a change as people say, it might run on 1/4 of the hardware that Vista requires.

At the rate graphics cards keep improving it would be a crime not to use it to its full potential.

Dude, if you buy a new card now, you're outdated within 6 months!

If you want it to be very usuable and easy then you will have to pay out a little for better hardware. Chances are you can find a lot of decent parts on eBay for pretty cheap that will be able to run KDE4.

Dude, you can get a Geforce4 Ti-4200 for like 50 bucks or less, a good nForce2 motherboard is dirt cheap, and memory is like something you pick up at Walmart of K Mart (That a KDE related thing? ).