Google apps coming to linux

[Patrick]

Not a native port but using wine:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1926385,00.asp

It's better than nothing.

[Gomer_X]

Not a native port but using wine:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1926385,00.asp

It's better than nothing.

Hmmm... I'll take nothing.

Is there any reason I'd want this over existing Linux photo editing stuff?

[spiffytech]

I enjoy using Picassa in Windows, and an glad to see it coming to Linux (provided it's an independant binary, not a deb or rpm file, which limits what distros it works on). But, more importantly, it paves the way for future Google apps.

[CptnObvious999]

On Digg everyone was raving about Picasa, is it really that much better than Digikam? Also it will probly integrate with KDE pretty bad so meh, I don't really need the apps but at least they are kind of trying. Maybe if they had an app I actually needed that was way better than the alternatives.

[dann]

At first I was like wtf, wine? Then I was like, ok; hold on. Maybe this isn't so bad. If Google could get their apps running on Linux using an implementation of the windows api that is non-ms and somewhat free, how can that be bad? There some solid cross-platform develpment there and maybe this would encourage other companies to do the same thing.

Then it hit me - Cross plattform. We already have GTK and QT and they run on Windows and OS X. Why go with Wine? Why a windows solution? Why can they not develope their apps using genuine cross-platform tools? I think this stinks! I'd rather have a Linux Native app than a bastardized windows app.

I thought perhaps part of the reason is that they want a seamless install without depending on outside libraries and other dependencies. They plan on having a self-contained version of wine within their software packages. But can they not do this with GTK or QT?

For a company with such deep roots in Linux, it's a bummer that they are going this route. Hell, they made native OS X apps.

[snarkout]

I'd love to have even a crappy wine prot of google earth. My kid loves that stuff.

[Tsuroerusu]

At first I was like wtf, wine? Then I was like, ok; hold on. Maybe this isn't so bad. If Google could get their apps running on Linux using an implementation of the windows api that is non-ms and somewhat free, how can that be bad? There some solid cross-platform develpment there and maybe this would encourage other companies to do the same thing.

Well, if people like EA would at least support running stuff like The Sims 2, or other games on Cedega, it would be a HUGE step in the right direction in my opinion.

Then it hit me - Cross plattform. We already have GTK and QT and they run on Windows and OS X. Why go with Wine? Why a windows solution? Why can they not develope their apps using genuine cross-platform tools? I think this stinks! I'd rather have a Linux Native app than a bastardized windows app.

Well, if I remember correctly, Google actually didn't write Picasa, I think they bought it from somebody, and if they were to do a GTK or Qt version it would require a full rewrite, and I'll bet ya 100 bucks that they would go with GTK, because it can be used for proprietary software without any sort of licensing fee.

I thought perhaps part of the reason is that they want a seamless install without depending on outside libraries and other dependencies. They plan on having a self-contained version of wine within their software packages. But can they not do this with GTK or QT?

Sure they can, remember PC-BSD's PBI system and what Kris Moore tries to do? Self-contained binary installers, it's very much doable.

For a company with such deep roots in Linux, it's a bummer that they are going this route. Hell, they made native OS X apps.

I agree, I think that if you benefit from free software you should be giving back, by the way Dann, pick up this month's issue of Linux Format, it has an interview with Chris DiBona, I read a little at LF's website and the image I get of Chris from the parts of the interview I've been able to read, is very different from the one from a few years back.

[CptnObvious999]

I would much rather them go with GTK than something like WINE (I would prefer Qt but I doubt that will happen). Qt > GTK > Wine (at least for those of us using KDE). Plus with KDE4 it will integrate a lot better (supposedly) so I'd be less annoyed then. I suppose after a long time and if this method gets popular KDE will do with it what they are supposedly doing with GTK in KDE4. Hard to say at this point how bad it could be so this is all speculation.

[Tsuroerusu]

I would much rather them go with GTK than something like WINE (I would prefer Qt but I doubt that will happen). Qt > GTK > Wine (at least for those of us using KDE). Plus with KDE4 it will integrate a lot better (supposedly) so I'd be less annoyed then. I suppose after a long time and if this method gets popular KDE will do with it what they are supposedly doing with GTK in KDE4. Hard to say at this point how bad it could be so this is all speculation.

Sure, native is always better, no matter if it's GTK or Qt, Wine will always have the problem of keeping up with the ever changing Windows API, that is the fundemental problem with Wine.

KDE 4.0 won't really do anything special to integrate with GTK apps, it will just use freedesktop.org standards. If you open up Gimp and then drag and drop an image from Konqueror to Gimp it will open up, because Konqueror sends the path of the file to Gimp.

Personally I just thank god that Skype is a Qt app, because it would just be so major painful for me to use if it was GTK.

I think we need some kind of unifying library where GTK and Qt can meet, we need some library that you link your app against and then it links it to Qt or GTK depending on what desktop you're running.

[CptnObvious999]

KDE 4.0 won't really do anything special to integrate with GTK apps, it will just use freedesktop.org standards. If you open up Gimp and then drag and drop an image from Konqueror to Gimp it will open up, because Konqueror sends the path of the file to Gimp.

::crys:: I could have sworn someone said KDE4 would use some program in development specifically for KDE to make it look and act very similar. I will see if I can find it.

Personally I just thank god that Skype is a Qt app, because it would just be so major painful for me to use if it was GTK.

GTK stuff is ugly and the hacks people have done to make it look similar don't work that well. As soon as flash gets an AMD64 version I am going to go full Konqueror. Firefox looks ugly and crashes way too often. Then I won't have to use any GTK apps besides GIMP on occasion which I'm ok with.

I think we need some kind of unifying library where GTK and Qt can meet, we need some library that you link your app against and then it links it to Qt or GTK depending on what desktop you're running.

Indeed.

[Tsuroerusu]

GTK stuff is ugly and the hacks people have done to make it look similar don't work that well.

Well, the gtk-qt GTK engine actually do work OK in a lot of cases, for example, Grip looks very KDEish when rendered with this engine.

As soon as flash gets an AMD64 version I am going to go full Konqueror. Firefox looks ugly and crashes way too often. Then I won't have to use any GTK apps besides GIMP on occasion which I'm ok with.

I actually like Firefox a little better than I like Konqueror as a web browser, for a few reasons. Number one, Firefox seems a little more robust in terms how it handles the websites created by idiots (read: idiots being people who design "for" Internet Explorer), and also you're able to tweak it's settings so it does more requests at a time, also Firefox seems to be more "persistant" when you have a few torrents going, when I surf with Firefox in that situation pages just takes longer to load, but they almost always do and load correctly and all that happy stuff, Konqueror just times out, I think Firefox is a little like "Out of my way! Move bitch get out 'da way!!". Another reason I really love Firefox for, is it's flexibility for expansion through extensions, in case you didn't know it, the technology that the Firefox user interface is built on is called XUL, and all that is is just XML, Javascript and images! So all you see in Firefox, the buttons, scrollbars, menus etc. etc. are all done with XML and Javascript, for example the other day I hacked a .js file to disable that stupid GTK file dialog, uhh that felt good eliminating that one and getting the good old Firefox file dialog. For what it's worth I don't think Firefox is bad, not at all, I like it, what I would like to see though, was a KDE version built on that XUL technology, with support for all the extensions.... a little like what was done with the Camino browser for OS X.

[CptnObvious999]

GTK stuff is ugly and the hacks people have done to make it look similar don't work that well.

Well, the gtk-qt GTK engine actually do work OK in a lot of cases, for example, Grip looks very KDEish when rendered with this engine.

Thats what I have been using but it just doesn't do that good with firefox IMHO. Maybe I have an abnormal theme or something.

As soon as flash gets an AMD64 version I am going to go full Konqueror. Firefox looks ugly and crashes way too often. Then I won't have to use any GTK apps besides GIMP on occasion which I'm ok with.

I actually like Firefox a little better than I like Konqueror as a web browser, for a few reasons. Number one, Firefox seems a little more robust in terms how it handles the websites created by idiots (read: idiots being people who design "for" Internet Explorer), and also you're able to tweak it's settings so it does more requests at a time, also Firefox seems to be more "persistant" when you have a few torrents going, when I surf with Firefox in that situation pages just takes longer to load, but they almost always do and load correctly and all that happy stuff, Konqueror just times out, I think Firefox is a little like "Out of my way! Move bitch get out 'da way!!". Another reason I really love Firefox for, is it's flexibility for expansion through extensions, in case you didn't know it, the technology that the Firefox user interface is built on is called XUL, and all that is is just XML, Javascript and images! So all you see in Firefox, the buttons, scrollbars, menus etc. etc. are all done with XML and Javascript, for example the other day I hacked a .js file to disable that stupid GTK file dialog, uhh that felt good eliminating that one and getting the good old Firefox file dialog. For what it's worth I don't think Firefox is bad, not at all, I like it, what I would like to see though, was a KDE version built on that XUL technology, with support for all the extensions.... a little like what was done with the Camino browser for OS X.

I'm not at all bashing Firefox. It is going to be hard giving up all those extensions and the fact that it is more universal is good but it doesn't integrate niceless with KDE and it crashes way too often. Ill take stability over features when it comes to web browsing.

[Tsuroerusu]

Thats what I have been using but it just doesn't do that good with firefox IMHO. Maybe I have an abnormal theme or something.

Well, I just use the stock Firefox theme, and it works fine, you can also go check out Mozillux's KDEish alpha theme for Firefox (Google for this: Mozillux).

I'm not at all bashing Firefox. It is going to be hard giving up all those extensions and the fact that it is more universal is good but it doesn't integrate niceless with KDE and it crashes way too often. Ill take stability over features when it comes to web browsing.

Crashes often? Dude I think you have got a bad build or something, mine rarely crashes, and when it does, SessionSaver saves my ass!
What this fun extension does is that it saves your session of tabs and stuff when you shut the browser down, but it can also be used to crash-protect your session. Works great, saved my ass a few times when I had written a lenghty forum post and was about finished and the browser went down, and then I just brought it right back up. I agree Firefox 1.5 still is not as mature as the 1.0.X series, but with the speed of development happening over at Mozilla, I don't see it taking too long before Firefox 1.5.X.X is solid as a rock, another thing to look forward to is when the Mozillux project gets their Plastikfox theme fully updated to Firefox 1.5, Firefox with fit nicely into KDE, with regards to looks, actual integration is not there, since it's not a Qt app, let alone be a KDE app.

[CptnObvious999]

I use Crystal Dream and it does look good but its not the same as the KDE programs. I know Im being nit-picky but I don't like when my cursor changes to black and white inside firefox instead of the 3d one I have in firefox. The save dialog and the animations bother me.

As for the crashing maybe it is because of some of my extensions (I recently uninstalled a bunch though so I only have 10 left and not much of an effect) or it could be that I'm running AMD64 or that I am using a flash hack to get it to work with firefox. Not sure but it is annoying. The sooner I get native AMD64 Flash the better.

[Tsuroerusu]

I use Crystal Dream and it does look good but its not the same as the KDE programs. I know Im being nit-picky but I don't like when my cursor changes to black and white inside firefox instead of the 3d one I have in firefox. The save dialog and the animations bother me.

Try using the default theme with the gtk-qt theme engine enabled, it actually looks OK on my system. You can get rid of the GTK file dialogs eaisily, see how right here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=110353

As for the crashing maybe it is because of some of my extensions (I recently uninstalled a bunch though so I only have 10 left and not much of an effect) or it could be that I'm running AMD64 or that I am using a flash hack to get it to work with firefox. Not sure but it is annoying. The sooner I get native AMD64 Flash the better.

I doubt it's because of the extensions, try updating them in case there is a bug in one of them. I've learned that some apps just don't work well, or don't work at all, when compiled as a 64-bit binary, OpenOffice for instance won't work at all, maybe same thing is true with Firefox, but if it works fine with extensions.... then I don't think so, or just try using the binaries from mozilla.org, I use the ones SUSE provides, works great. I'm actually quite sure that "flash hack" you're doing has something to do with this, Macromedia's flash plugin is VERY picky, it's like a 6 year old that won't do anything it's being told, try disabling that and see, I'm almost sure that's where the problem is, you can also install SessionSaver (It's en extension) s you don't loose anything when the browser crashes.
If none of the above fixes the issue, try installing a 32-bit version of Firefox, you know, how much does it matter if Firefox is 32-bit or 64-bit? I doubt it makes you surf faster, you wanna surf faster then get a faster internet connection, I believe Gentoo's mozilla-bin package fetches the binaries from mozilla.org. One thing I noticed about SUSE's 64-bit version is that Firefox, OpenOffice... by default is all 32-bit, I think it's because it ensures better compatibility over all with proprietary plugins and so forth.