HOW-TO better support newbies??

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:15 am

I think this is a m0st needed h0w-t0. Recently I had a good discusion about the same ol things about paying for support vs. 'if you pay you loose' mentality some Linux users have.

I have been there but as I have matured the ideas I am actually changing my mind based primarily on experience, second on the pragmatic view that I havent actually got any figures from the other side.

Ok so here is the thing, gratis linux vs payed linux for newbies but techies and for non-techies.

Obviously two completely different users category.

So here is the first myth:
- If a windows user can't get it, a computer newbie will be completely clueless?

I am not saying that I disagree, what I am saying is that how many people have tried that? Most people rely on the mac as an easy PC for any user level. Yet I have seen many Mac classes to tell you they are as clueless as Windows and they have almost the same learning curve except the common things like no virus etc.

My counter theory is this:
Windows users are actually harder to learn linux than newbies. Why? Because newbies start small and get a discovery process where they find out new things to do.

A windows user on the countrary already have an agenda on what he is used to do and find that he has to learn too much to do it.

So teaching linux to a newbie is faster and easier than teaching a windows user.

Another common credo of linux users helping newbies:
Assume that the newbie is just as broke as you -- linux after all is free right?

More and more people seem to fail converting their partners because they think everything in linux is free, from the education to the distribution and support.

To a degree is true, but what they don't tell you is that there is a price for all this -- TIME. Usually newbies will buy a linux book, they will take classes if they were that widely available, and I think they will also pay third companies for support.

Linux users who already invest many many hours seem to not be aware of it and expect newbies to make the jorney 'their way'.

I am sorry but is just sad seen many people being 'desilusonated' wtih linux because they just couldn't make the journey. And if you actually take the time to study the process, guess what it is painful.

Third is that Linux users aren't aware or dont want to listen that companies don't like linux. And not only that but encourage that sentiment by paying them. The problem of hardware for linux is something that should be change once and for all. The only way to do it is by buying Linux-hardware.

Is true it exist.

Linux is in a point where developers have written drivers for incompatible hardware. Again users tend to forget all the million of hours invested to get to this point and asume that you dont have to worry about it. The problem is that companies also dont worry about it and keep making incompatible hardware.

Many windows users are told to get a new computer with the new verstion of windows pre-installed. Why? Because end-users don't have time to learn how to install, yet they seem to have the dollars to upgrade.

Yeah experience windows users can afford to install it -- if they upgrade their hardware. But yet on the linux camp they tend to be very resiliant to the idea of getting a Linux-PC.

So do I have a point? Well I do? Do newbies MUST take the same road we took? Are we slowing down the linux growth from our ol' school ideas?

And a more important question, are we supporting linux companies?

I think as linux mature we need to matur with this questioning and at least try alternatives to our view.

Most of the linux growth will eventually come from non-techies -- is the only way to REALLY grow.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:14 am

My first thought: although we show our support to the community by using Linux software, I don't feel it really enough to keep the community growing. In general, we need to give back more.

Keep in mind, I use "We" in the broad sense. Many of the community obviously contribute by developing software and contributing to that development in many ways... so when I say "we", you know who you are.

Generally, though, we need to support our favorite Linux projects and hardware vendors more than what we're doing. If not by assisting on the development side, then by donating funds is the easiest alternative.... and it doesn't have to be big bucks, either.

If everyone who used KDE, for example, gave the project $5 - or even $1 - that would add up a lot for the project team. And, with all things considered, what really is $1 or $5 out of your computer budget?

Instead of spending $300 for MS-Office, lets take some of our savings and give it to the Linux community that is making free software available to us. I refer you my Five Dollar Challenge.

We obviously can't afford to send money to each and every Linux/FOSS project that is out there... but pick your favorite 5, 4, 3, 2, or even 1 and show them that you appreciate what they're providing for you.

When you go out to buy your next printer/digital camera/mp3 player, try to avoid buying strictly based on price and buy from a company that is obviously trying to provide more for the Linux community. First company that comes to my mind for this sort of thing is HP, but there are a many more out there that could use our support.

As for how to teach people Linux, I don't have a comment on that at the moment.

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:35 pm

Well u think we will be more supportive if whe recomend newbies to buy a Linux PC as opposed to try to install it, or at least get a supported version of linux (commercial linux)?

I think is great to think Ubuntu linux is for everyone, but we have to think how good is it doing for the overal net worth of the community.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:24 pm

Jza wrote:Well u think we will be more supportive if whe recomend newbies to buy a Linux PC as opposed to try to install it, or at least get a supported version of linux (commercial linux)?

I think is great to think Ubuntu linux is for everyone, but we have to think how good is it doing for the overal net worth of the community.

I would think that, yes, giving a newbie a PC with Linux already installed and properly set-up would be a better place to start than having them do an install from scratch.

However, I am one of those people who believes in training of some nature for computer users of every kind. Marketing computers like they were toasters is nothing but detrimental to the industry.

In my opinion, companies like Microshaft and Macn'toss care nothing for the industry itself... only from what they scam out of it in the short term.

You sell someone a PC, there should be a beginner's orientation session to go along with it.

Back in the 80's I remember many people taking night classes at the local highschool that ran for 4 - 6 evenings that taught basic computer skills. This was before the birth of the Microshaft and Macn'toss marketing monsters. It was just the way it was... you bought yourself a home micro computer, you took a night class at the local highschool to learn how to use it. It should still be this way, in my opinion.

Just think how much easier life would be for your corporate office's IT staff if people actually knew what they were doing with the computer sitting on their desk. In fact, the money corporations could save on IT spendgin, by having knowedgable staff, could probably be re-directed to help subsidise free night classes for every new computer owner.

Now I'm really of on a tangent, here.

Back to your regularily schedule web browsing......

Tsuroerusu · Post by **Tsuroerusu** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:34 pm

Jza wrote:I think is great to think Ubuntu linux is for everyone, but we have to think how good is it doing for the overal net worth of the community.

One of my issues with Ubuntu is that the distro is so young compared to more established distros like SUSE, Mandriva and Fedora. One thing I like about SUSE is that even the community version called "SUSE Linux" is EAL4 certified, Fedora is not EAL4 certified. Of course I can use joe's distro if it does what I need, but this EAL4 certification gives me sort of a good feeling, if you know what I mean. I've been looking at what Novell is doing with NLD10 and even though I personally favor KDE over GNOME, I gotta say, NLD 10 looks very nice, has legal mp3 playback, good integration of all kinds of things....... and of course it has a lot of great management utilities and stuff like that, which SUSE has spent years and years and years polishing and certifying.

I know for a fact Novell is not going to market NLD10 to end users, but all I'm trying to say is that we need a very very well established vendor who can provide phone support and all kinds of services that end users would need, and I don't see Mark Shuttleworth doing that any time soon because Ubuntu is still a young distribution.

Judland · Post by **Judland** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:53 pm

When I began my Linux journey, it was Mandrake 8.2 that I started with as a distro. They offer/offered wonderful telephone support. I used it once during the set-up of my new system and was most impressed.

I'm not sure how they compare now, but Mandrake/Mandriva is another company who's been there for most of the life of the Linux desktop. They're obviously doing something right, being able to pull themselves out of a state of near bankruptcy in the recent past.

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:01 pm

And they also had offered linux pre-installed on wall-mart. The problem is that community is very resiliant to any kind of linux product. They want linux free at all cost.

I think taking that credo to the extreme can be backfiredo. I think Linux is about freedom but Linuxers are everything but freedom sometimes.

I've learn that and thats why I decided to support linspire for the newbie market and now for people that definetly can't run their odd proprietary computers.

I think the credo of 'let users run as root' is completely bogus since they have been doing that since forever. Evilizing a transitional distro is just plain wrong from more angles, and is like watching a homeless guy arguing about why he had a bill instead of coins.