mrben wrote:The whole thing about licensing agreements is, I suspect, a red herring. _All_ of the distributions you mention have spent 10 years _selling_ their distributions, and, most likely, are able to get per-sale agreements for things like that.
Yes, and in "most" cases, you've been able to get it for free, even before Novell bought SUSE, whenever a new version came out you could either buy it, or wait six weeks and get it for free. Mandriva has always had a free version, so has Red Hat (To my knowledge).
mrben wrote:The whole issue over things like Java, Flash, etc, is a big one. Although, to be honest, I don't have Java installed on my home desktop (Debian) nor my laptop (Ubuntu), and have never felt the need to have it.
You just nailed it on the head with "I don't have Java installed on my home desktop (Debian) nor my laptop (Ubuntu), and have never felt the need to have it.". YOU don't have it installed nor need it, but what about the Windows users that are used to using Azureus or other Java stuff, I'm sure they apreciate being thrown right into the command prompt when wanting to use that stuff, which I think is a flaw in the way a distro handles newbies.
mrben wrote:1. Canonical have done in 2 years what the other distributions have spent 10 years doing. (OK - maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but they're progress is staggering, and if they keep it up they really will make a difference.)
Yeah right, dude, today it doesn't take a whole lot of a time to put a distro together. Look at all the Debian offshoots, they popping up like mushrooms, there's also this new weird-ass Fedora derived distro called FoX Linux, which had a bunch of hype for a minute.
mrben wrote:2. Ubuntu is a distribution that is liked by both new-to-Linux people _and_ hardened Linux gurus, thus bridging the gap and allowing for a helpful transfer of knowledge. (Again - this is a bit of a sweeping statement, but I think it basically holds true.)
Well, go check out fedoraforum.org, right now it has about 61,915 members (Yes I am aware that ubuntuforums.org has 75,130 members), I doubt that there aren't a lot of experienced users in both camps.
Gomer_X wrote:The fact that Ubuntu doesn't come with Java installed is no excuse to condemn a new user to Windows or Linspire.
Dude, did I even refer to Linspire in my original post? I like the stuff Linspire do by sponsoring Kopete, a lot of KDE stuff etc. etc., but I don't like their Linux distribution. People who make a distro that sets people up with a root account by default don't understand the fundemental basics of UNIX security, hardcore UNIX admins has said for over twenty years: "NEVER RUN AS ROOT". I think those guys are a little more experienced when it comes to security than Linspire (And I'm talking about people that've used stuff like AIX, Solaris, IRIX....).
Gomer_X wrote:When I was new I tried several different distros until I found what I liked. Starting a newbie on a specific distro because it comes with proprietary pieces installed is more of a handicap than a help, but ultimately most people will migrate to a more free distro anyway.
Well, if you're used to Windows or OS X, you don't give a crap about Java, Flash... not being free (See RMS' definition), you just want things to work, let's face it, if you introduce a Windows user to Linux you know for a fact he don't give a shit about the GNU philosophy because he already uses proprietary software, or just want his damn machine to work (Windows doesn't exactly fulfill that demand in my mind). Also don't we want our moms and paps to use Linux? I doubt a lot of people in that genre cares about Java not being free, I doubt they care about multimedia codecs not being free, they just want things to work. The thing we have to ensure when we introduce Windows people, and especially hardcore Windows user that sit in the registry all day long, to Linux is that they don't get a bad experience at first sight, that makes them go right back to Windows and believe Microsoft's crappy "Get The Facts" (Get The FUD?) propaganda. Of course we can just ignore such users, but in the end that bites us in the butt more than it helps us, of course you and I can give a crap about not more people using Linux, because we get the fact (I can't believe I just said that) that it's a superior OS and all that happy stuff, but as we go into the future of multimedia and stuff, what will be the most common thing you will see regarding that?
DRM
And that will eventually make our experience with Linux more misserable, if we like to buy DVDs or something. Linux will never get the so-called HDCP support, and thank god for that, but at the same time that completely takes away our ability to legally watch next-gen DVDs (HD-DVD and BluRay), HDCP support has to be a part of the kernel, and since our kernel is GPLed, what can people do? Go right in and look at how the HDCP stuff is working and hack it so you can disable the copy protection on other platforms probably as well. The point I'm trying to make is that if we don't act now, and get more people over to Linux, we will never get the chance again, because once people are upgraded to Vista, and locked into the next-gen multimedia era, we will be out in the cold. Why is it that we have such a hard time with the legality of codecs and the ability to purchase music, and TV shows legally online? Because we're only about 5,2% of the market, and even though we are bigger in numbers than those Apple users, most people don't know it, and we can't prove it do anybody and convince them to make all that stuff available to us.
Gomer_X wrote:As far as Ubuntu being no good because it's only 2 years old, it's not like they started from scratch. Ever heard of Debian? I think they've been around a few years.
I didn't say, nor did the article as far as I am aware (The writer mentions that he uses Ubuntu), "Ubuntu was no good" on a general plan, I said it was a bad choice for new Linux users, because it makes a lot of things that Windows users are used to being easy to do, pretty damn hard (Maybe not from our perspective) right off the bat. Of course I know Ubuntu is based on Debian, I'm not completely stupid, but let's face a fact, Debian has never aimed to be easy to use nor do they primarily aim to be a desktop distribution, you can certainly use it for that, but it's for the faint of heart among the Windows users out there.
), Fedora provides a damn good GNOME experience (I've been looking at their upcoming 5 release, and even as a die-hard KDE user I have to say it looks pretty good), Mandriva does a great job as well, and SUSE too provides a wonderful KDE and GNOME experience.
