Which side of the fence are you on?

[Wally Balljacker]

I know there's a handful of vehement Apple bashers around here, and I know some of us happen to like OS X, and Mac hardware. I don't want this to turn into a shitstorm, I just wanted to start a poll. Behave yourselves!

[Vogateer]

I actually do like OS X a bit. It's been fairly stable for me, and I could recommend it to friends. My sister has Ubuntu on her laptop, and she's a good sport, because even though Ubuntu is great, she has to put up with things like the fact that Flash will bring down Firefox if you try to stop, pause, fast forward or rewind a flash stream. Other than that, Ubuntu seems to be running pretty well. Really wish I could figure out how to get Flash working (don't want to turn this thread into a troubleshooting session, though).

I also like Mac's hardware, at least the looks of it. I look all over trying to find a way to make my machine look decent, so I don't feel like I should hide it, but I either find cheap functional boxes, Lian Li cases that look great but cost over $300, or cases that look like some geeky teenager's idea about what a cool computer looks like. Of course, I guess this shouldn't be a big surprise, considering the demographics of people who buy computer cases. So yeah, I guess there's a reason why Lian Li can charge you out the ass for a nice looking case, since there don't seem to be many PC manufacturers making anything close to it at a better price.

Yeah, you guys like to talk shit about how gentoo people are ricers? What about people who have these cases with big windows on the side, led lights strewn throughout the innards of the case, a big, tacky "X" strewn across the other side shining neon blue like it's a bad prop stolen from some B-movie about UFOs? If you want to talk about ricers, then these computers are truly the equivalent of those Hondas with eight foot Erector Set spoilers, a big asian-wannabe-looking dragon decal on the back window, and those God awful ground effect neon lights shining underneath.

I'm not wild about Apple's applications, though. The iLife suite is horribly overrated. I've tried helping some poor guy at work get iDVD to work, and I think out of the dozen or more times that we've tried to burn a DVD, we've only managed to get one good DVD out of the bunch. It's horrible. I can see why the guys from the Linux Action Show got sick of it, because my experience hasn't been that different from them. This same guy's iPhoto library got corrupted, and I don't think we ever did fix it. I've never been able to get the Sync features of the .mac account to work very well for another guy at work, either. Apple's Mail program is basically worthless to me, since I'm using my own home-brew IMAP server, and Mail.app and IMAP do not get along.

And don't tell me I'm the only one who gets sick of Apple trying to shove a .mac account down your throat. iWeb could have been a decent little program, but they won't sync it with any other server besides a .mac account, you have to fire up Cyberduck or your ftp program of choice and upload the crappy html it spits out. I recently wrote a long ass rant to one of my friends who recently took a big gulp of the Apple Kool-Aid. Had to try to warn him before he gets too far up Job's ass.

[TankCatNinjaFish]

The problem is that the BSD license and others specifically allow the abuse by companies like apple. In an attempt to be 'business friendly', BSD style licenses do not force any sort of contribution like the GPL. This should shed some light on why the FSF/RMS folk insist on GPL-- its a strategy issue. Also, the dual-licensing model (where paying customers can use BSD) offers the benifits of GPL _and_ business friendliness.

Not to mention open source/free software tends to be portable by nature, whereas its a chore to get any proprietary software from another platform to run on Linux (assuming its possble at all)..

[jsusanka]

can't really submit a vote - I fall between the first and second choice somewhere

while their hardware looks good it doesn' t really impress me that much when you dig into the specs of the systems.

also - I can't figure on why anybody would develop for the apple or windows platform -

if I want my software to live and survive I would release under the GPL - there are two many instances where great technology made a debut but then didn't sell and is now in software heaven somewhere. If even a portion of that stuff is released under the GPL we would all be better off as a civilization.

One subject I will keep a close eye on is the amd and ati merger if amd releases some or all of the ati software as open source that could be the breaking point with the gamers and linux acceptance with them. that has the potential to be huge.

[CptnObvious999]

I will admit some of their hardware does look slick, but there's plenty of other choices to buy that offer good looking hardware that aren't complete dicks. I won't buy a Mac because the company has done a lot of things I don't like so I refuse to give them my money. (and I refuse to buy an iPod because everyone has one for some reason and they are making up a monopoly and of course also because I hate Apple )

[Gomer_X]

OS X leaves me cold. If you're an Apple person it probably makes sense, but not to me.

As far as hardware, iPods break a lot. I've heard plenty of stories from people having trouble with Apple laptops, especially the Intel Macs. I've also heard about how horrible Apple customer service can be when you have a problem. So yes, some of their hardware is great, but not all of it, and it's nowhere near worth the extra money you spend.

I have no use for anything Apple.

[Vogateer]

I must admit that I did buy my wife an iBook, though she was in Nursing School and needed something that would run those awful CD's that came with her textbook. Wine wasn't cutting it, so I went with what I felt was the least evil of my remaining choices, and went with OS X over Windows.

CptnObvious999: It would make sense that there are better looking pieces of hardware out there, but honestly, I have trouble finding them. I must admit one of the Linspire boxes had a nice Mac Mini feel to it, but I want to make my own computer, or be able to add components, so I prefer small to mid-sized towers. Like I said, some Lian Li cases look slick to me, but they're usually expensive. I'd say the same about Asus laptops. I haven't seen the piano black Antec Sonata--I think that's it--in person, but it has potential.

I certainly don't expect someone to do my searching for me, but if any of you know of nice looking cases or computers, I would appreciate giving me an idea where to look besides New Egg. Don't get me wrong, I like New Egg, but unfortunately my efforts to find a nice case there haven't yielded much.

[CptnObvious999]

I certainly don't expect someone to do my searching for me, but if any of you know of nice looking cases or computers, I would appreciate giving me an idea where to look besides New Egg. Don't get me wrong, I like New Egg, but unfortunately my efforts to find a nice case there haven't yielded much.

Apple doesn't have a monopoly on nice looking computers/electronics but they promote their products a lot more than the competition.

I found these pretty nice cases on NewEgg but I don't know of any better resources than NewEgg..

• http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811146018
• http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119103
• http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811148001 (this has a picture of Tux on the box.... not sure why.... but I like it )

[Vogateer]

The pic of tux is a nice touch.

Thank you for the recommendations Cptn, but I'm afraid those just don't suit my style very well. The neon lights and the windows and such are just too flashy for me. I like subtle, smooth, and clean lines. I'm starting to think that with my tastes, I just need to either stop whining, bite the bullet, and spend good money on a good looking case; or get clever and figure out a way to hide my computer while still providing access to CD and USB.

Just for examples, here's an antec case and a couple of Lian Li cases that are a little more my style. Some would call it plain, but there's no accounting for taste, eh?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811129017
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112093
http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/ ... PC-S80.htm

And just for fun, check out their integrated desk:
http://www.lian-li.com/Product/OA/OA_F1.htm

Movie here:
http://www.lian-li.com/cf/msd_ENGLISH_320.wmv

[Judland]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602

I like this design. Brings back good memories of the kind of computer I had as a teen... if anyone can guess.

Even has a built-in flash card reader on the front of the "keyboard". Cool.

[jsusanka]

http://www.cybernetman.com/default.cfm?DocId=602

I like this design. Brings back good memories of the kind of computer I had as a teen... if anyone can guess.

Even has a built-in flash card reader on the front of the "keyboard". Cool.

I don't know if they were the same brand or not but I used to work for a manufacturing company and that is all what we deployed - back then with windows 3.1 dos 5.x on novell 3.x,4.x network. they were great to move around the manufacturing floor and didn't take up a lot of room -

I liked them!

[Vogateer]

Good find, Judland! That has some potential. Very slick.

[Judland]

I'd be interested in getting one for myself, but I'm not sure how bad I'd be hit with Duty. They don't have distributors outside of their own company yet (at least from what the web site is saying), so I'd REALLY have to want one at this point.

Anybody on State's side coming up to Saskatoon any time soon?

[dann]

I side with Cap, of course! I think the Superhero registration act is a bad idea. Iron man can kiss my ass! Oh wait, that's not the fence we are talking about here, huh?

I use Mac's on a regular basis. While I find OS X very nice, for me; it is very limiting and too controling. Like the LAS guys said, I find myself using the same applications on OS X that I use under Linux so I get an amalgamation of FOSS and Apple products that don't fit that well together.

While I find their hardware very nice and asthetically pleasing; after a while that wears off. Sure, my 12" PowerBook was slick in the beginning; but it soon turned into just another laptop and the personalilty it may have had in my mind was overshadowed by hardware issues (Superdrive and poor wifi). Same thing happened with the 15 PowerBook work purchased for me about a year ago. The personality is just about gone, and with the DVD problems I have been noticing, not enough to make me consider buying more apple products.

I played with the Macbook's and they are very nice. But I'd be hard pressed to buy one as Apple's enhancements make it all that more difficult to put Linux on there. With the Lenovo pre-installing SuSE on Thinkpads, and the praise Thinkpads are getting, I'd rather throw my money that way.

So with all that taken out of the picture, I find Apple's dispicable business practices, the locking up of the online music industtry, the smugness of their representative and community and their constant stealing of ideas and passing them off as Apple innovation earns them a vote of spawn of satan from me.

There Pat, I said it.

[Patrick]

I find Apple's dispicable business practices, the locking up of the online music industtry, the smugness of their representative and community and their constant stealing of ideas and passing them off as Apple innovation earns them a vote of spawn of satan from me.

There Pat, I said it.

Woohooo! Now to get Allan and Linc in line!!